Voting Thread for October RIAR - Space Hulk 1

[Squiggle]

All the stories and comments can be found here viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3179

The stories are as follows (in no particular order)

Memory and Vengeance by Mossy Toes
Hope is Waiting by Hillock
Night Cycle by Rusk
Remember the Fires by Ye Olde Grandma
The Mortal Priest by VictorK

Please nominate your top three.

Votes must be in by Friday 14th November

I will announce a new RIAR after that. Please let me know if you have any topics you think would make for a good competition.

Cheers

Squiggle

[The Hillock]

I'll go first:

1st - Night Cycle by Rusk
2nd - Memory and Vengeance by Mossy Toes
3rd - The Mortal Priest by VictorK

I guess you'd like some reasoning. Rusk's won because I love humour in otherwise grim situations and he (or possibly she, I dunno) did it very well. Mossy second because it's good and I liked it, and because it's a better take on a similar idea to mine (yes, he wrote his first and no, I didn't copy - pure coincidence).

I'll be honest, neither Victor nor Grandma's stories grabbed me - although both are well written, I tend to struggle with the less narrative, more... oh god, I don't even know the right words. Suffice to say I was left mildly baffled by both, but Victor's seemed to fit the brief better to me so I gave it the nod.

Squig, as for the next RIAR - given that this was called Space Hulk I, and I've already got another story written that didn't fit this brief, I'd appreciate a Space Hulk II

[Squiggle]

im sure we can consider that

[schaferwhat‽]

1)Hope is Waiting by Hillock
It has its issues but then I sort of admire that you forced yourself into a corner by having to put him in the chair at the end and I reward effort.

2)Night Cycle by Rusk
Was the most entertaining read of the lot, but I'm not a fan of servitors expressing that sort of level of self awareness generally so it jarred with my take on the universe so I can't give it first.

3)Memory and Vengeance by Mossy Toes
The folly of angry Astartes leading to the birth of a Space Hulk. Is a really nice concept but the others got the guy in the chair which is a very arbitrary way to determine ranking between three stories I quite enjoyed.

The others were pretty great as well, nothing really wrong with them I just liked these more.

[The Hillock]

Cheers shafe.

Only one more day for votes. Thread has 88 views, so people are looking. Get voting people!

[YeOldeGrandma]

First of all - crit:

Memory and Vengeance, by Mossy Toes
This piece has a good flow and I think you've portrayed all the bitter hatred felt by loyalist Astartes very well. Seriously, this is essentially how I imagine all Space Marines to feel, even if they don't go into Black Rage mode - very nice character portrayal, and dialogue. And language, the whole shebang etc etc.

Things that bother me are these: first of all, the name of the ship is supposed to be Wrath of Baal. I've only read the book that came in the Space Hulk box, but I assume that's the fluff we're going with? Also, Wrath of Baal set out shortly after the Siege of Terra, in the 31st millenium. While the memory of Mackan is a nicely executed motivator in your story, it doesn't fit the time frame.

Hope is Waiting, by The Hillock
Same as with Mossy's story: you've got the name of the ship wrong. Furthermore, the book has the corpse of the Sanguinary Priest sitting in a chapel, not on the bridge (hey, maybe one of Rusk's servitors moved him - though with blast doors thick as titan armour I have trouble seeing how).

You've had the same idea as Mossy basically, and it makes it easy for me to compare between the two (which I hope you don't mind). In short, I think yours a good enough story, though there are some minor things. For starters, I find less character depth in your story - your characters are just Black Rage-marine and Calmer Priest-marine, and while it's essentially the same with Mossy's story, his has more interplay between the two in the dialogue which lets us get to know them better, as well as a clearer motivator for his Black Rage-marine (I suppose any self-respecting Blood Angel would feel hatred against Orks in general, but you could have won much by fleshing it out a bit). The same can be said of Calmer Priest-marine (who is your main character) - a little more insight into his thoughts as he's killing his crazy brother would've been nice.

There is a lot of potential for some great drama in your story, and you have some nice bits. I liked the part about sergeant Lenneaus - he seemed to represent the hopes of the captain, and hearing how the sergeant Black Raged all over the ship was a delicious way to shatter that. The captain executing his crew, the priest stopping him, fighting and killing him, and sacrificing himself for the crew... all good stuff, but as I said I'd have liked to have seen it elaborated upon.

Some writing was a bit clunky as well, most notably this passage.

“Captain, what are you doing? Release him!” Dinillius either didn’t notice or didn’t care, and continue to throttle the now unconscious officer. Acacius walked toward the captain, the servos in his abused armour whining as he moved. Placing his hand on the Captain’s wrist he forced his arm to lower, the strength of the terminator armour overcoming Dinillius’ resistance. The officer collapsed to the floor, and Acacius gestured for the crew to carry him away.

Having a sentence say "Acacius walked toward..." really doesn't inspire much feeling of action or haste, which jars with what's otherwise a rather intense scene.

Night Cycle, by Rusk
As ship names go, yours is closer to the mark - but Sin of Damnation was not the name of the Blood Angels ship, but the name the Blood Angels gave the entire space hulk. Bonus for putting the Priest in the chapel though.

I like the original concept, and there's just something delightfully grimdark about cleaning servitors still going about their tasks in a dead, derelict space hulk.


Your main character is developed well enough, just about as much as you can do with a servitor. The dreaming is an easy way for you to add more character, and I suppose it's the latent psyker stuff that allows her to see the Space Marine's death. All in all, nothing groundbreaking for a 40k story, but none the less cool.

some bright spark had rewired its systems to spout obscenities and crude remarks about whatever action it was undertaking.

English isn't my first language, so I'm confused whether you mean that some spark in the machinery is the cause of the anomaly or "some bright spark" of a tech-priest purposefully rewiring the servitor. The second option is as techno-heretical as it is hilarious (though it leaves one to wonder at the sense of humour of the Adeptus Mechanicus). Personally I have never been as fond of Laughhammer 40k as of Grimhammer 40k, but that's only my taste. You manage to write a piece with some comedy elements well enough.

The Mortal Priest, by VictorK

an Imperial freighter whose void shields had failed en route to a world with ten billion souls

No, a Blood Angels Battle Barge, according to the book.

With that out of the way:
It's always nice to see this type of story - one with a more vague, epic scope instead of the usual narration (I think that was what you meant, Hillock, wasn't it? Sort of, at least), and it suits 40k very well. However, while your story portrays some pretty cool stuff, it also just... well, like Hillock I have to say that it doesn't grab me as much. You're an accomplished writer so there's nothing jarring with the actual writing - you have beautiful language in most places (and I will say nothing more about your writing because there's really nothing more to add to that statement). I guess it's just that the "tempted by Chaos"-thing has been done so many times that it becomes too much of a run-of-the-mill thing for me. Even with that self-sacrifice in the ending (which I am a sucker for).

The Blood Angel never felt ashamed of his previous ignorance; he learned its purpose and thanked the men he formerly called gods for making him who he was.

Kudos for summarizing the relationship between Astartes and low-tech mortals (from which they often seem to draw their recruits) in one sentence.

Votes:
1. Memory and Vengeance, by Mossy Toes.
2. The Mortal Priest, by VictorK
3. Night Cycle, by Rusk

The reasoning behind my voting being the use of language, and how I felt the story to be "flowing".

[Mossy Toes]

Things that bother me are these: first of all, the name of the ship is supposed to be Wrath of Baal. I've only read the book that came in the Space Hulk box, but I assume that's the fluff we're going with? Also, Wrath of Baal set out shortly after the Siege of Terra, in the 31st millenium. While the memory of Mackan is a nicely executed motivator in your story, it doesn't fit the time frame.

Ah, not having access to the Space Hulk fluff booklet or any stories (and finding nothing to this effect on Lexicanum or 40kWiki, or anything) the fault is mine. Sorry.

Have fallen a bit behind on voting--meant to do it a while back. I'll jump to it.

[Mossy Toes]

1st - "Hope is Waiting," by The Hillock

2nd - "The Mortal Priest," by VictorK

3rd - "Remember the fires," by YeOldeGrandma

[Rusk]

Sorry for late votes/crit, but better late than never.

1st - The Mortal Priest by VictorK
Stood out the most of all the stories for me - probably due to the lack of focus upon spaceships, but hey ho - and I'm ignorant enough to not recognise the inspiration, so I was impressed with the creativity, and being able to link it back to the theme. Flowed well and was very well written, kudos.

2nd - Memory and Vengeance by Mossy Toes
Nice little tale. The descent into the black rage (or blood thirst or whatever its called) was well handled. Personally I preferred Victor's piece, and felt this was a tad predictable, but you can't often do a lot with the RiaR format. Thumbs up from me.

3rd - Hope is Waiting by The Hillock
Very similar to Mossy's story, which is unfortunate really as the two are always going to be compared together. Solid enough, but I felt it didn't flow as well as Mossy's, and a few sections were a bit jarring. e.g.

When he had chosen to engage the Ork armada rather than withdraw they had exchanged worried looks, and these had become hushed whispers when their two escorting Cobra-class destroyers had been turned into the drifting, flaming hulks he could now see alongside.

Some bits didn't run together awfully well in my uneducated opinion, but by and large I enjoyed it.

Grandma's story was a bit overly vague for me. Not a bad story, but it just didn't stand out to me as much as the others. There were bits that I didn't really understand, but I suspect that's probably due to me not being familiar with/not being able to recall the source material.

brb next month's contest

[VictorK]

I'm going to admit I'm the same boat as Mossy: I know nothing about Space Hulk and the online sources didn't tell me much. Honestly, I probably wouldn't have cared. I made Arias die where he did because that's where I wanted him to be. I wanted him to die on a civilian ship, drifting for eons, until he became part of the hulk and was later found. If canon doesn't work for my story, well...

That's also why I'm going to vote against Space Hulk 2. Don't get me wrong, I really do believe that creativity flourishes best when it's under constraint, and there's nothing wrong with making writers look for a story in the nooks and crannies. Of all of us, I think Rusk really rose to the task. I'm not saying we should go back to the vague one word RiaR prompts of old. It could be a song, or a poem, a piece of concept art, or even something like Space Hulk where you say 'this person ends up here, and this is in his hand. GO.' I just don't want someone like YeOldeGrandma to think we're slacking or not enjoy the stories as much because we honestly don't know the canon. If I disregard canon, I want to do it consciously, because I have a story purpose. I don't want to just be a schmuck.

On to the critiques! Those of you who have RiaR'd with me in the past, and I think that's everyone, you know I tend to give long winded and rambling critiques. I sometimes go in depth. I just want to say that everything is meant to be respectful and good natured, even if I do poke a bit of fun. If you think I've said something unfair or mean spirited, please let me know so I can apologize and adjust for the future. Thank you all for participating and putting yourselves out there. This is my hobby, and it's more enjoyable when you've got good folks to do it with.

Memory and Vengeance-M. Toesy

Wow, this guy is a dick. Threatening the humans with a powerfist? WHO’S THE REAL MONSTER?

I’m not ashamed to admit I have no idea what an equerry is.

I think what saves this piece for me is the frightful energy you muster towards the end when Aliandro is consumed by the Black Rage. That alone makes the story worth the price of admission. Otherwise, it seemed a little heavy handed but you didn’t have much room to work with so that’s to be forgiven. I can’t quite place my finger on it but something felt flat for me, like the rest of the story was lacking the really potent energy of Aliandro’s madness. Of course, you have to contrast that madness against something. The narrative is well constructed and everything makes sense. I’m just missing some zazz.

Hope is Waiting-Hillsock

I feel like I’m in a South Park episode. Lorde, Lorde, Lorde, Lorde…

the Blood Angel rapped out.

I think one of the best, and easiest, pieces of writing advice is to ditch all the synonymous for ‘say’. ‘Rapped out’ isn’t terribly evocative and seems out of place to me. Granted, they also say to use adverbs sparingly, so whereas I might have written ‘said sharply’, some might disagree.

What the hell is with Space Marines just killing humans? That’s two stories now! Does this really happen in 40k fiction? This is Darth Vader stuff.

Hmm. Do we need to spend precious words describing the Blood Angels? Everyone knows their armor is red. I grapple with this myself, because I generally believe anyone should be able to approach a story, but it’s kind of like a speed bump here: we’re in the middle of this tense scene where the /good guys/ are killing one of their own, and suddenly we have to take a break to describe this guy. I would try and work the description in more organically. Also you use the word ‘scene’ twice in this paragraph in a way that is jarring, but I chock that up to being written in a rush, you’d definitely catch that in editing.

I really am shocked that these Space Marines are just mowing people down. Am I really that out of touch?

A very similar story to Mossy’s, really. I would give his the edge because of that scene of madness that I think he pulled off very well. If I was thinking of rewriting this piece, I would want to decide whose story it is. Is this Dinillius’ story, or is it Acacius’? Focusing on one would, I think, let you figure out what this story is about. Is it a story like Mossy’s, where vengeance and rage overcomes good sense? Or is it about being responsible, like Acacius? What are you trying to tell me? Devoting the narrative to one marine’s perspective and inner thoughts over the other’s might be a more effective strategy.

Night Cycle-Rust Kohl

KH had traversed this section of the ship barely three months earlier, and the cleaning servitor had left the area perfectly clean, devoid of any deceased super-humans.

This line. This is a good line.

Katia should’ve known better than to try her little mind tricks on one of the followers of the Machine God, but she hadn’t, and here she was. With vacuum cleaners instead of hands. Nice work, Katia.

As someone else observed, it really is the mix of light tone and really depressing subject matter that makes this story work.

I like that the ogryn servitor has a suggestion of humanity in the way it speaks, but it’s more robotic than our heroine. This story has a nice bounce, and it’s by far the most creative way that any of us figured to get the sanguinary priest to his final resting place. Often times the best stories are where you’d least expect to look.

I am a little uncertain at the effectiveness of our little detour into Katia’s past. But, given the constraints and the way it was executed, I think you pulled it off. The action in the present was very limited, and knowing where Katia came from makes things that much more harrowing. This is a really dark piece when you stop and think about it, and I like that kind of fridge logic.

Remember the Fires-NotYourGrandma

There are wolves ahead, disguised in the form of sons.

I’m not sure I get this. I see what you’re doing: Lunar Wolves, Sons of Horus. But it seems to me if you’re going to go with this much symbolism you might as well commit to it. How is wolf disguised as a son? We’re in stream of consciousness land so I can accept a little slippage, but by this point in the story the illusion is starting to wear thin. I had guessed we were Sanguinius a little before you tipped your hand with ‘wings’, and it’s certainly ok to reward your reader with a confirmation. I just think we’re losing some of that energy you’re trying to capture when you end up reaching for symbols.

I’m not sure that we ever get to the prompt but I don’t really care. This story is poetry more than prose; you’d have to analyze it the same way because there’s no narrative and only a shadow of a character to latch onto. The meat is in the rhythm and the images and the way the piece is constructed. I’m not sure I’m up to analyzing it. But, for what it is, I was able to follow it and I admit to being swept up in its energy and language every now and then. It’s just not something that I’m equipped to really comment on, I couldn’t write a story like this, those tools aren’t in my toolbox.


Comments on my own story: I'm pretty shamelessly stealing from A Wizard of Earthsea, by Ursula K. LeGuin, which I had just read prior to writing this entry. I was trying to ape her style because she's so, so good. Right on the first page she says 'this guy is going to be the greatest wizard ever, so pay attention' and then the story is so much more. The story has the main character being chased by a shadow, which I felt was appropriate within the 40k/Chaos framework. Normally I write scenes for these RiaRs, so I tried to tell one marine's life story in one go, mimicking LeGuin's style. From the comments it seems I did all right, though yes, it's a bit cliched.

The voting:

1. Night Cycle, by Rusk. Like I said, this story blows us all out of the water in terms of its creativity. It deserves to win on that alone.

2. Memory and Vengeance, by Mossy Toes. I think this is the stronger of the two Darth Vader Blood Angels/Vengeful Space Pursuit stories. The main thing that grabbed me was the perfectly executed descent into madness.

3. Remember the Fires, by YeOldeGrandma. It's hard to figure out who to give this spot to, but I gave the nod to Grandma for taking a chance with a more experimental piece and there were times when the energy really worked.

See you all next month.

[YeOldeGrandma]

For me personally it doesn't matter if we continue on the Space Hulk theme or not, but I want to make something clear: if we continue with Space Hulk, I will keep in mind that others might not have access to the background, and I won't comment on things that deviate from the canon (and, it goes without saying, I won't let it affect my voting - luckily my voting for this month wasn't based on canon accuracy either). I don't want to make anyone feel pressured to not participate in a theme just because I happened to buy the game and they did not. Don't let me spoil anyone's fun, because that was never my intent.

[YeOldeGrandma]

I feel like I’m in a South Park episode. Lorde, Lorde, Lorde, Lorde…

And we'll never be mortals (mortals).
It don't run in our blood,
No sign of weakness at our core .
We wage a different kind of war.

[Squiggle]

voting is closed.... i now have to try and count... where's a lex-mechanic when you need one?!

er....

so... 3 pts for first, 2 for second and 1 for third....


this is very close.

the winner is Mossy with 10 points, closely followed by Rusk with 9, Victor with 8 and Hillock with 7.

Congratulations to Mossy, and well done to everyone for writing such excellent stories. I shall have the next topic up in a couple of days. I am intending to move away from Space Hulk this month, but I think I will be coming back to it.

Thanks to everyone for writing, commenting and voting. It really does make it work.

Cheers

[The Hillock]

Well done all (but mostly Mossy). Thanks all for the crit.

Squig, I gotta ask, why didn't you vote? Is it something to do with you being the organiser of RIAR and therefore having to stay impartial? Because I'm pretty sure no-one will object if you do, and the more voters the better...

[YeOldeGrandma]

Yes, good show everyone, and congratulations to Mossy for a well-deserved win.

I’m not sure I’m up to analyzing it. But, for what it is, I was able to follow it and I admit to being swept up in its energy and language every now and then. It’s just not something that I’m equipped to really comment on, I couldn’t write a story like this, those tools aren’t in my toolbox.

Oh, come now, there wasn't any more thought behind my story than behind any of the others I have written in RiaR. I just went with whatever image popped into my head based on how cool I thought it'd be. There's nothing fancy to it.

But it's become clear that my story was a bit overly vague in ways it needn't necessarily have been. I thought I'd try to explain what I was trying to do.

The Space Marine in the throne is supposed to be a dead Sanguinary Priest from the Blood Angels Legion/Chapter, who set out on a space trip shortly after the Siege of Terra. From this I derived three things:

1. The Horus Heresy (and the death of Sanguinius) would still be a fresh wound. Hence the"I remember the fires"-bit.

2. The chalice carried by a Sanguinary Priest holds blood of Sanguinius (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_Chalice). This, I decided, would also lead to a psychic connection between the blood and the spirit of the priest, which keeps one small shred of the priest's psyche "alive" and protected in the warp and throughout the time-span. When others (daemons) come to sup from the chalice they can't, because of the strong psychic imprint made by the primarch's blood.
The Space Hulk book mentions the Blood Angel Librarian sensing a psychic signal, which is how they find the chalice later on.

3. Black Rage and Red Thirst would totally be a thing, even more so because Sanguinius just died and because the priest is so closely connected to the psychich imprint of Sanguinius through the chalice. Again, "remembering the fires" means not only the battle for Terra, but also the last battle of Sanguinius. I also tried to sprinkle some suitable anger and rage from the character here and there.

My story is the story of the ghost of the priest. He remains semi-conscious for ten thousand years as the space hulk drifts through the warp ("adrift, caught upon the eight winds", and if you know your WHFB, you know that the eight winds are essentially the warp), though arguably with a shattered psyche.

"They howl with mirth as I scream, my mind fraying, scattering like leaves to the eight winds. I shatter, but I cannot die. My pitiful spectre remains leashed. I am the Chalice. I..."

I shifted between "I" and "we" because of the close ties between the chalice (ie Sanguinius) and the priest. I deliberately repeated myself and made each part "stand alone" so to speak, because the priest would have no true idea of what was happening around him, he'd only see the present. Warp-stuff, time and space doesn't matter etc etc.

I tried to use symbolism to describe what he experienced (much as I imagine the warp would be experienced), and in places things had double meanings. The "wolves" were of course Luna Wolves, but also represented agents of Chaos as a whole (daemons etc). A wolf hunting you through a winter forest is one of the oldest predatory archetypes of mankind, so I decided to have that passage to represent the daemons of the warp assailing him. "Sons" was another - it was Sons of Horus, but also humans as a species. "Son of Sol" = human. "Wolf disguised as son" = agent of Chaos looking like humans (which you could say the Chaos Marines are).

I had to have the visions of Sanguinius's death of course, and I suppose that was rather easy to spot when I wrote of wings that burned. I just hope the double meaning of the word "father" was evident - both as the priest cried for Sanguinius, his father, and as Sanguinius cried for the Emperor, his father.

"The sea casts me away and I wash up on foreign strands, coughing. The sky is dark and void. I cry out but there is nothing and no one to hear. My voice is hoarse and the tide comes back in and carries me out again."

The warp often became a sea. This was meant to be the space hulk returning to real space, and the priest's cries were the psychic "cry" of... well, mostly the chalice I guess, but he is the chalice and the chalice is him and, you know...

Likewise, Chaos as a faction (ie enemy of humanity - so not the warp creatures, the "wolves", but the intelligent force that plots to destroy the galaxy) was consistently represented by fires.

Light glimmers here and there before guttering out and everywhere dark clouds roll in, thunder cracks and lightning strikes, kindling fires. We remember. Black rage fills us but they only laugh.
[...]
Where the firestorm has passed, nothing but ash and death remains. We see clearly now: it is a corpse burning, and the flames are racing up its neck. Afterwards, nothing remains but the blackened bones, the bones of the galaxy, drifting silently in the void.

etc.

There was other stuff as well, like the descriptions of Necrons, Slaneesh and Tyranids respectively:

A silver tombstone shifts, giving way to ancient hate. A son of lust is born, ripping his mother apart as he spills forth. A shadow prowls the voids, unseen in the depths but surfacing now to take a first bite.

"What is it?" There are lamps spearing through the dust. Hulking shapes have entered, have unlocked the door.

"A relic of Sanguinius. His blood was once held in this vessel." Bright star, brother-star. Son of Sol. "I can feel it, the provider of our gene-seed indelibly marked on the goblet."

These lines are directly copied from the Space Hulk Mission fluff. It is when the Blood Angels find the chalice (symbolised first as starlight finding him lying on the strand, before I cut to a more literal view of the scene). In hindsight I should have stressed this fact more - these aren't famous words that are instantly recognized after all, and I should never have assumed that people knew where they were from, and thus what was happening. But my story ends when the Blood Angels recover their relic.

[Mossy Toes]

Thanks for the votes, all!

I look forward to seeing what next month's theme is...

[YeOldeGrandma]

Is there going to be another competition?

[VictorK]

This is ridiculous. I can't make stickies or anything, but it's not like there's a lot of traffic...so if there's no objection, hell, I'll just post the RiaR threads.

[Mossy Toes]

This is ridiculous. I can't make stickies or anything, but it's not like there's a lot of traffic...so if there's no objection, hell, I'll just post the RiaR threads.

All in favor don't say nay...


*crickets chirp*


All right! Looks like it's a plan!

[YeOldeGrandma]

This is ridiculous. I can't make stickies or anything, but it's not like there's a lot of traffic...so if there's no objection, hell, I'll just post the RiaR threads.