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Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:06 pm
by shadowhawk2008
May I offer these two maps for those who are interested?
Map 1 and Map 2

According to Map 1, somewhere in the bottom 'groove' of ultima, south of the ultramar region looks like a good place to base the world, somewhere between Salem and Ursidhe-Ka. If you are really interested in the Tau and want to be way out of reach of the Ultramarines, then northeast of the Ta empire, between the triumvirate of Follax IV, Orpheus Prime and Eq'hai is a good location to choose as well. Fairly close to the Eastern Fringe and the Tau, yet comfortably far enough from Ultramar.

According to Map 2, the Sagittarius arm would also make for a great location, particular with references to the 'dreadful sagitarii" in Horus Rising with the mixed human-alien empire towards the end. It could be interesting to somehow tie that empire in with the setting, with occassional references to how said empire flourishes, out of reach of the Imperium [plot armour and all], due to contact with aliens. You could introduce Rogue Trader(s) who have traded with this empire and the local governor has benefitted quite well from this arrangement, and bribed quite a few Ecclesiarchal types too.

More to come as I think of other things and get around to reading your original discussions. Cheers!

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:42 pm
by shadowhawk2008
Razhbad, Old forum wrote:With enemies I am noticing a trend for people to steer towards Chaos and the Tau Empire. Either could be responsible in some fashion to the war. If we used a corrupt priest he could be a chaos worshipper and his plan is to slowly turn all those who join him to the Chaos Gods. Now with the Governor angle you could easily say that some nobles have been swayed by the Greater Good and feel that the Tau are better placed to protect and look after the citizens of the Sector. With this fall of a sector it leads the idea of how this could come about. Now if we do go with the placing of the Sector close to Tau space we can see a general ideal. That area of space felt the power of the Tyranic Wars and the Wars with the Tau more heavily then others, we could say that these wars and the Imperiums domand to keep on fighting as left the sector in a really bad state which could lead to people losing faith with the High Lords of Terra and may be not the Emperor himself. It could be that those involved consider themselves loyal to the Emperor but think his Imperium is led by corrupt liars.


Razhbad, Old forum wrote:Now according to my little time lines the Damocles Gulf Crusade was 742 and the first Tyrannic war was 745. If we do go with a sector close to Tau Space we can easily say that these 2 major war engagements put heavy pressure onto the Sector making the demands for war. Now what we could say that since the events the sector as not had the strength or means to defend itself from pirate raids and several systems might have become financially bankrupt. Fast forward say to the mid 800s this could have had a terrible effect where trade is difficult due to bold pirates making systems more secualr and distrust, the Imperial Church could see this as a time to stamp its authority on a sector it considers slightly disloyal. Then move to the early 900s the Sector may find itself on the brink of denouncing the High Lords, having never recovered from the wars and having to deal with the Ecclesiarchy coming down heavy on the populaces, seems like an ideal place for some kind of religious reformation.


I think these are some excellent building points for the setting. For the timeline, you can set it to be a decade or so right after the Badab War, which you can tie-in as a 'cameo mention' relating to how Imperial response to the rebellion wasn't up to par. If you want to involve the Eldar, then corsairs and a craftworld working together would work very well here. Preferably an unknown craftworld so its a blank state when you start and you can give it a very personal touch. The Eldar would serve as the 'mysterious' third player while you push ahead with the Tau as the main opponent. The Tau have established diplomatic relations in the sector and are intent on integrating the majority of the sector. The Eldar manipulate events to first make the Imperials side with the Tau, and then later break the alliance, weakening both players for their own gain. The entire plan is put together by the seer council and the ranking corsair captain.

As for the astartes involved in the campaigns. Do you want them to feature on both sides as loyalists/secessionists? The rebels could have ties to one of the nearby chapters for mutual defense and protection or something like that. I have done some initial work on two chapters - one BA successor and the other Salamander successor - that I would be happy to provide as part of the Imperial response in case you want to use unknown chapters.

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:36 am
by Razhbad
All are good concepts that could be used, the question is which direction people wish to turn to. I like the idea of perhaps disillusioned nobles thinking the Tau can protect them better then the Imperium.

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:56 am
by Raziel4707
I like that idea too, though my knowledge of the Tau is extremely limited. But I can learn easily enough, it would be an excuse to buy another codex afterall, and that makes me happy. :)

As for any astartes involvment, I'd personally steer us towards the Novamarines or perhaps someone like the Relictors, with my preference being towards the Novamarines. They despise all xenos life to a degree much greater than even most other space marines, they have a large fleet presence and have made it their undertaking to patrol the entirety of the Ultima Segmentum and respond quickly to any and all threats to the Imperium. Possibility of a whistle blower on the Imperial side, perhaps? It also works in that they are kind of fragmented due to their role, so it wouldn't be likely that they'd arrive in a massed crusade and just slaughter everybody. one or two ships, maximum.

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:19 am
by Phalanx
If you're using the galactic east, You have the Tau being attacked by Tyranids aswell as encroaching on a lot of the Ultramarines's territory. I forsee a three-way battle, perhaps? Possibly even multiple chapters involved.

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:48 am
by Raziel4707
Previously we were trying to avoid having massed astartes involvment, hence going a bit north of that. But then, if that's what people want to do...

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:19 am
by Phalanx
OK, so maybe instead of the Ultramarines, use their trained IG regiments, as they would be close to the engagement if the Ultramarines are busy.

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:42 am
by shadowhawk2008
Raziel4707 wrote:Previously we were trying to avoid having massed astartes involvment, hence going a bit north of that. But then, if that's what people want to do...


Yeah, its better to keep the fluff tight by not involving too many players. Massed astartes involvement would imo be counter productive because they don't get along that well in a joint command unless there is clear superiority of one form or the other in the captains/chapter masters. So best to steer away from that. On the other hand if people want a lot of marine action then whichever chapter(s) you choose to involve here could very well deploy most of their strength or something, divided into several warzones.

Phalanx wrote:OK, so maybe instead of the Ultramarines, use their trained IG regiments, as they would be close to the engagement if the Ultramarines are busy.


Just not a fan of the Ultramarines really. They get entirely too much time on the galactic stage and its something that always bothers me. Developing the other chapters is a great way to show off their uniqueness and show of our own spin on it.

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:28 am
by Razhbad
Well i think the Novamarines would be a good choice if decided to be used. As would the Sable Swords as they are a Chapter that has picked up a lot of experience fighting the Tau.

Now it could do well to perhaps have the Tau slowly incorporating itself within this sector, primarily with trade as that seems their usual tactic. Then a Water Caste diplomat could easily find a disgruntled Governor, who might have felt the Imperium have deserted the sector.

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:49 am
by shadowhawk2008
Perhaps the Tau could create the necessary conditions to have a governor become disillusioned and disgruntled with the Imperium? Say having one of their collaborator races stage attacks on shipping or worlds and then step in as the saviours? I still like the idea of the Eldar being the manipulators as they are said to have been during the Second War for Armageddon.

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:50 pm
by Commander Shadow
personally i would be adverse to ultramarines. They're great and all, but i'd rather not build upon pre-existing fluff (there's alot of stuff about them). Personally seeing as Tyrannid incursion in the galactic east is such a large problem i would advocate a presence of regular Guardsmen. Im not saying that the nids should be in there but that would be justification for a military presence on a relative non-important. Also, seeing as the troops are there, the planetary/system governor could start to get worried that his troops and the guard regiments would not be speciffic to hold off the swarm. He/she could then turn to nearby imperial and alien systems to forge some sort of military protection pact, nearby systems could include tau enclaves and the like, thus giving the excuse for tau water caste envoys to journey to the planet and not get shot out of space when they arrive.

in this way the system could rely on Tau protection to supplement its forces, the governor would not see it as breaking with the Imperium, only making protection packs. over time these packs would get stronger and perhaps members of the governor's council would start believing that the Tau could offer more protection than the Imperium. The conflict ends when the system sttops sending its tithe to the Imperium, but instead raising forces to deal with the Tyrannid invasion and help their tau and other alien allies. Imperium wont have that will they? so they send forces to retake the system.

Twist could be that there really is no nid threat at all. The original guardsmen were sent to prevent a growing Tau presence in the system

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:46 am
by Raziel4707
I'm all for these ideas! Some level of nid involvment could be interesting, perhaps a genestealer cult as oposed to an invasion? If nids are involved in a big way it would literally sweep over everyting else, they are a swarm army after all.

Sable swords, eh? *Rifles through codex*

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:33 pm
by shadowhawk2008
How about just getting started on writing the overview of the whole thing? Someone(s) should take the lead and set the factions in stone. Once people are writing things down the background will start to develop properly rather than just debating things over and over.

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:21 pm
by shadowhawk2008
So far this is what I have come up with. Mostly just the high concept. It is open to any changes that people feel like. I used the Novamarines and Sable Swords because in their background the Novamarines are very anti-xenos [Monodominants if memory serves] and the Sable Swords have had quite a bit of experience against the Tau. Both chapters have also sworn oaths to each other so make a good pair.

The Hesperon Schism occurred in 345823.M41 with Lord Governor Seywol Darran of Klesser Prime declaring his secession from the Imperium. Cardinal Sodain Garrysta of the Cardinal world of Trenna II supports the rogue governor and declares a religious reformation, breaking away from the Imperial Church. The Imperium takes punitive action against the rogue leaders but are driven back after a costly engagement with the Klesserine Hive Guard, who are surprisingly supported by a contingent of Tau forces. Meanwhile the secession spreads to other worlds in the Hesperon subsector, with Darran and Garrysta consolidating their power and gaining popular support from a population oppressed for decades with Ecclesiarchal punishments and high levels of Imperial tithes.

In 765824.M41, the Cardinals of the Holy Synod [?] declare a crusade to be launched against the Hesperon subsector. First among the forces to answer the call are the space marines of the Sable Swords and Novamarines chapters who deploy more than three hundred battle-brothers combined. Four hundred Sororitas of the Order of the Valorous Heart under Canoness Preceptor Areth Marin also flock to the banner. Admiral Vitrus of Battlefleet Sovillan is tasked to assist the crusade. Nine Imperial Guard regiments are also brought in to deal with the secessionist forces.

The Hesperon Schism lasts from 823.M41 to 830.M41

Forces involved --
1. Imperium
a. Sable Swords, Captain Taranton Rossa, 4th Company. Supported by 20 Terminators of the 1st Company and 20 Assault Marines of the 8th Company.
b. Novamarines, Captain Adelus Selbicar, 3rd Company. Supported by 40 Devastators of the 9th Company and 30 Scouts of the 10th Company.
c. Order of the Valorous Heart, Canoness Precept Areth Marin, 400 Sororitas.
d. Imperial Guard, 9 regiments.
e. Battlefleet Sovillan, Admiral Vitrus.

2. Secessionists
a. Klesser Prime Hive World, Lord Governor Seywol Darran. Klesser Prime is located in the Hesperon subsector and is in the galactic southwest of Bast's World [Map1 in my post at the top], somewhere between Ymga Monolith and Vengeance [right north of the Tau Empire].
b. Klesserine Hive Guard
c. Cardinal Sodain Garrysta of Trenna II, Frateris Militia
d. Tau Contingent Tiir'rall, 10 Hunter Cadres
e. Shas'O Li'myar Tiir'rall [Commander Strongblade]

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:46 am
by Commander Shadow
i could go deeper into those 9 guard regiments if no one wants to. Make up some interesting and believable stuff :D

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:09 am
by Raziel4707
I have no problem with that, great work ShadowHawk!

I'd be happy, nay, delighted to work on the Novamarines, which should be very easy as I'm working on them for my submissions anyway :) . I'm thinking two ships with a company and a half on board between them, but shall return with clearer background forthwith!

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:25 am
by shadowhawk2008
Commander Shadow wrote:i could go deeper into those 9 guard regiments if no one wants to. Make up some interesting and believable stuff :D


I'm not very good at IG stuff, even though I've been working on some stuff related to my DIY chapter (sig) that I expanded into a sector project. And yeah, I'd love to see a guard command that is unified at only the highest level but has internal rivalries and stuff going on, kind of like in the first Gaunt's Ghosts book. I see it as more realistic than a guard contingent where everybody gets together and everybody is like 'yeah you're cool, would love to bust a few heads with you!' or something like that.

Raziel4707 wrote:I have no problem with that, great work ShadowHawk!

I'd be happy, nay, delighted to work on the Novamarines, which should be very easy as I'm working on them for my submissions anyway :) . I'm thinking two ships with a company and a half on board between them, but shall return with clearer background forthwith!


Thank you :D I can take the Sable Swords and the Tau contingent. No experience with the Tau other than slaughtering a few of them on the tabletop :twisted: but it should be interesting :roll:

If I come up with some other stuff I'll post that too.

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:52 am
by Raziel4707
Groovy, though I think Razhbad will want some Astartes to play with also!

Right, when I get a minute I shall get cracking.

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:09 am
by shadowhawk2008
Raziel4707 wrote:Groovy, though I think Razhbad will want some Astartes to play with also!

Right, when I get a minute I shall get cracking.


Its collaborative work after all. ;) No problems there. Its a crusade and there will be several forces marching on to help. I might just throw some other chapter in there to supplement [perhaps one of the existing chapters take too many casualties and withdraw for a while or something like that, kind of like what happens with the Badab War for example] and tie them in as working with the Sororitas. Or even the Deathwatch! :o

Re: War Engagement

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:39 am
by Raziel4707
Well as it's pre-Badab, the Novas weren't over committed so reinforcements are always a possibility anyway.

Right, time to twiddle with bits, bobs and possibly a couple of McGuffins!