Pharos

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Pharos

Postby sam vimes » Wed May 18, 2016 2:31 pm

And thats this mighty tome finished, a good read but no one can really do the Night Lords quite as well as Aaron Dembski-Bowden imo, Kurze is still hanging around like a bad blood stain, the Lion didn't even appear and still he irritates me deeply, he and Guilliman need to have a brotherly scrap badly and get the bad blood out as they have WAY to much personal pride and mutual arrogance to work well together, Sanguinius finally grew a set and started acting like the Emperor, yeah this took till the end of the novel to happen but hey its progress, too long had Guilliman acted as the power behind the throne time for the Emperor to start acting like one instead of sitting around moping as it were.

Dantioch and Polux just wow Guy got the right mix of emotion and humanity in these two he actually made me like the fists as before now (and my apologies to any Black Library authors reading this) the Fists, Iron Tenth and the IV legion were/felt just so bloody two dimensional to me by and large, imo only Graham McNeil made the IV Legion and Iron Tenth feel like characters in his works as opposed to flat 2d villains/charaters I've read before in other works, the ending were Polux is holding his brother from the IV Legion.. yeah that was wonderfuly well written and Polux will equal and/or exceed Dantioch I feel even though he feels far inferior when he is far from it.

Best scene though for me (avoiding spoilers though there's another that's my number one) Roboute bowing to Sanguinius at the end and by doing that he showed imo that he cares more about the imperuim and its ideals than his own pride and glory, and THAT is why I feel out of the loyalist Primarchs he is the best, would Dorn allow another to rule his planet in his stead if circumstance demanded? Would the Lion? feth no he trusts little and hides a LOT.
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
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Re: Pharos

Postby Xisor » Wed May 18, 2016 5:03 pm

Good rundown, Sam! I recall that I enjoyed the novel. Lots of really neat little points here and there. As you say - didn't care too much for the Night Lords especially, but didn't especially dislike them either. Probably just soured by Aaron's portrayal!

With the Fists, Hands and Warriors (and Guilliman's goons), part of the problem, I fear, is that they're ostensibly a very boring old lot. E.g. they're supposed to be boring. Not boring to read or lcaking character, but their portrayal, I always felt, would make you want to sit as far from them as possible at a dinner party...

(Think superhuman Ludwig Schwarzhelms!)

To that end, much as I hate to admit it, Graham McNeill does do a good job in injecting *life* into these poor buggers. Deviates a bit too far into just being 'superhuman men', for my tastes, but it's undeniably good despite my chuntering.

As such, one of the little details I loved through the book was Corvo - the Ultramarine reinforcements captain. Very boring, but a delight to read for all that.

More than all that - I don't think there was much about the book I actively disliked. As said, lots of neat little touches and some great executions of many of the ideas - all told, a decent enough read. Perhaps not super-duper, but lots to enjoy.
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Re: Pharos

Postby sam vimes » Wed May 18, 2016 6:47 pm

All the little touches were brilliant, although Corvo's character seemed to be absent that was apparent in the short story that's in war without end were he gives the metaphorical finger to the Lion, and jokes at his own expense that brought a chuckle from me.

Favorite scene was were Polux was holding Dantioch as he was dying quite impactfull for me and I was praying for a night lord to pop up so Polux could just knock seven shades out of him, and when Guillimans honour guard try to carry Dantioch... they wisely backed off from a very angry and distraught son of Dorn.

The two night lord brothers were well done I felt was rooting for the younger one tbh I liked him and his internal conflict and his questioning of the legion and what it stands/stood for, and as you say we have been rather spoiled with Aarons writing of them lol.

It's hard to think of anything bad per se as it was a simply good solid read from start to finish, Kurze and the angels discussion of the scattering, there dual gifts of foresight and the similarities between them wonderfully well done, I mean that fight scene between them, I was gob smacked at the implications of what there foresight does for them, and how them two fighting each other = eternal stalemate.

I hope Guy does more and well the uh ending and what it implies?... Yeah be prepared for a shock also wonder what Polux will do with Dantiochs mask?
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
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Re: Pharos

Postby Xisor » Thu May 19, 2016 12:16 am

That was it. That's the thing I'd forgotten. The Kurze/Sangy scenes. Great, an exquisite treat. And perhaps the best of Sanguinius we'd seen yet.

Except for one detail. One teeny tiny little thing.

No one seemed to be upset at Vulkan being found to be alive, and violently insane, and then dying. Nor his sons running off, abandoning their Emperor and what might be the last extant pocket of loyal humanity.

Nobody cared. Nobody batted an eyelid. The implications of the loss of one of the loyal Primarchs is huge. More so, I'd argue, because they had previously presumed he was dead.

That's Sanguinius & Roboute's brother. And one of the eldest. Dantioch and Pollux must surely have had opinions. No horror at dozens of able bodied marines embracing superstitious madness to try to navigate the Ruinstorm? No grudging respect or even uncertain, vaguer feelings?

As I said, one little detail. It's absence, once noticed, became a big thorn in my mind. Not at all integral to the story - but then it's the Horus Heresy. None of it is integral to the story. Missing out or removing bits like that to the distant background really pulls me out of the galactic melodrama and reduces things back to any old bit of space opera.
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Re: Pharos

Postby David Earle » Thu May 19, 2016 4:40 am

I feel like that was addressed sufficiently in Deathfire, at least for Roboute. For everyone else, it strikes me that Vulkan was already assumed dead by most everyone, and the knowledge of his brief return was kept closely guarded. Maybe Sanguinius could have spared a thought for him, but otherwise this didn't bother me.

I did like Pharos overall, especially Polux and Dantioch. Something about Sanguinius and Kurze's scenes struck me the wrong way though - maybe too on the nose when it came to discussions of their shared precognition. On the other hand seeing Kurze halfway putting himself back together was nice.

And of course there's the Hungry Them worked in to the Heresy. Oh, Roboute, what have you done. :lol:
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Re: Pharos

Postby sam vimes » Thu May 19, 2016 8:42 am

Yeah Kurze semi-sane was a nice change, although I do wonder why we've not seen any wargames of asartes vs asartes yet beyond that one short bloody ages ago they don't seem to be prepping to take on Horus's legions and its not as if they dont have the numbers or tactical nouse to stage these wargames theres three legions there plus the shattered ones.
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
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Re: Pharos

Postby Xisor » Thu May 19, 2016 3:55 pm

David Earle wrote:I feel like that was addressed sufficiently in Deathfire, at least for Roboute. For everyone else, it strikes me that Vulkan was already assumed dead by most everyone, and the knowledge of his brief return was kept closely guarded. Maybe Sanguinius could have spared a thought for him, but otherwise this didn't bother me.
it's probably not helped that most of my memory of Deathfire was my all too frequent :roll: . Well, that and the concept of an odyssey being three warp jumps and a fight with two death guard ships.

As said, it felt like the repercussions of the remains of a Legion giving up and going home (for purely sentimental reasons) just weren't dealt with. It feels, to me, like Numeon's legacy would (err, should) not be fondly remembered by the leadership of Imperium Secundus. But I doubt that logical consequence can be explored without contradicting the neat little bow tied by DF.

But there's plenty of space for hectoring authors to explore that, no need to chunter about what isn't in books that already exist.
"When my housemate puts his bike in the middle of the living room floor, I find that inordinately jarring, annoying and rude, but for me to refer to it as "genocide" would be incorrect." -Ath
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