The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 54 IS UP!]

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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby Mr Stereo1 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:40 pm

Dang! I was hoping Telion's scroll contained some information on how to revive Papa-Smurf, not just a plan on what to do after he died.

Ah well, the story continues apace. Vulkan was one of the more humanitarian Primarchs IIRC, and the Lion's Knight Templar traits are forgivable in the setting. It makes sense they would be in line for the succession, I suppose. If Guilimann felt a Primarch was needed to unite the Imperium, I'm surprised he didn't make a grab for power after the Heresy, though.

Are the Dark Angels still around?
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:47 pm

Mr Stereo1 wrote:Dang! I was hoping Telion's scroll contained some information on how to revive Papa-Smurf, not just a plan on what to do after he died.

Ah well, the story continues apace. Vulkan was one of the more humanitarian Primarchs IIRC, and the Lion's Knight Templar traits are forgivable in the setting. It makes sense they would be in line for the succession, I suppose. If Guilimann felt a Primarch was needed to unite the Imperium, I'm surprised he didn't make a grab for power after the Heresy, though.

Are the Dark Angels still around?


There are two things to take away from that scroll.

1. In the event of the death of both the Emperor and Guilliman, The Lion becomes ruler of Ultramar. If the Lion is "unavailable" then the next person in line is Vulkan. This is what happened.

2. A Primarch is the only one who can unite the Imperium. True and valid to the extent that that is what Guilliman did after the Heresy. He was the Lord Commander of the Imperium, Warmaster in all but title. He reformed a galaxy-spanning empire's military forces with all the responsibility on himself. He could have taken power but then the Imperium would have fought the Roboute Rebellion, coming straight after the devastation of the Horus Heresy. And do you think that the other Primarchs would have just stood by?
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby LordLucan » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:50 pm

Mr Stereo1 wrote:
Ah well, the story continues apace. Vulkan was one of the more humanitarian Primarchs IIRC, and the Lion's Knight Templar traits are forgivable in the setting. It makes sense they would be in line for the succession, I suppose. If Guilimann felt a Primarch was needed to unite the Imperium, I'm surprised he didn't make a grab for power after the Heresy, though.


Guilliman did do that though. He became a High Lord after the Heresy, and effectively became the highest ranking ruler of the Imperium after the (now crippled) Emperor.

Are the Dark Angels still around?


Some are. The Lion is missing though. But the Patriarch of the Realm of Fathers might know where to start looking for him.
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby LordLucan » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:52 pm

shadowhawk2008 wrote:
LordLucan wrote:Wasn't Fulgrim gifted the anathema blade by Horus at the end of 'Fulgrim'? Sure he was. I am making the assumption that the anathema is the only weapon capable of poisoning a Primarch properly.

Also, yeah, that is confusing about the Anathema. There are two anathema. One is the Interex sword, the other is the title given to the Emp by chaos (because he is their anathema, being a being of order).


A common mistake :)

The Emperor was called the Anathema by the daemons.

The Interex sword used to poison Horus and then given to Fulgrim was an anathame.


Damn you're right!

I feel an edit coming on... :P
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:03 pm

He had command of the Imperium's military forces after the Heresy and by virtue of being Lord Commander was a de factor High Lord, but he was never the 'ruler'.

Anyways, have to keep in mind that this entire setting is evolving with each new HH book that comes out and we get new info. We still don't know canonically that Guilliman thought only a Primarch could unite the Imperium. If that had indeed been so then the High Lords wouldn't have existed, at least not that early after the heresy. And Guilliman wouldn't have split the legions either for what is a Primarch in power as the Imperial Regent (he obviously wouldn't call himself Emperor) if he doesn't have a legion to call upon?
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby LordLucan » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:10 pm

shadowhawk2008 wrote:He had command of the Imperium's military forces after the Heresy and by virtue of being Lord Commander was a de factor High Lord, but he was never the 'ruler'.


Well, he wouldn't call himself a ruler would he? Also, as the scroll specifies, he'd take over as ruler only if the Emperor was properly dead, not just crippled.

Anyways, have to keep in mind that this entire setting is evolving with each new HH book that comes out and we get new info. We still don't know canonically that Guilliman thought only a Primarch could unite the Imperium. If that had indeed been so then the High Lords wouldn't have existed, at least not that early after the heresy. And Guilliman wouldn't have split the legions either for what is a Primarch in power as the Imperial Regent (he obviously wouldn't call himself Emperor) if he doesn't have a legion to call upon?


Also bear in mind this 60K setting is also evolving. Draigo didn't even exist in canon when I started this story remember. ;)

But seriously, I am bearing this in mind when I am writing these parts. Sometimes I do miss things, and I encourage my readers to pull me up on bits I get wrong or forget. It is a damn huge setting, and I just seem to keep adding to the stuff I have to remember for it lol
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby Tyrant » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:16 pm

Interesting that Guilliman named the Lion as his successor first, and Vulkan second. I remember from an earlier part that Vulkan is seeking the whereabouts of the Lion; if he finds him, I wonder if that will create any conflict of loyalties for the remnants of Sicarius's empire?
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:22 pm

LordLucan wrote:Well, he wouldn't call himself a ruler would he? Also, as the scroll specifies, he'd take over as ruler only if the Emperor was properly dead, not just crippled.


Hmm, thats not mentioned in the background article. But eh, its a minor point of contention. It is still fact that even after 9 of the Emperor's sons rebelled and nearly destroyed their father's empire, the others were still trusted, especially Guilliman with the safe-keeping of the Imperium. The High Lords were the most powerful men in the Imperium at that time have to remember, and I don't think they would have tolerated a "ruler" especially if he has the power and not the title. And Guilliman did have the power because he split all the legions of old, even his own. The merits of such "decentralized" power and can be debated endlessly however.

LordLucan wrote:Also bear in mind this 60K setting is also evolving. Draigo didn't even exist in canon when I started this story remember. ;)

But seriously, I am bearing this in mind when I am writing these parts. Sometimes I do miss things, and I encourage my readers to pull me up on bits I get wrong or forget. It is a damn huge setting, and I just seem to keep adding to the stuff I have to remember for it lol


Yeah that was the point :D Its nice to see the "loose" ends tied up in nice ways.
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:23 pm

Tyrant wrote:Interesting that Guilliman named the Lion as his successor first, and Vulkan second. I remember from an earlier part that Vulkan is seeking the whereabouts of the Lion; if he finds him, I wonder if that will create any conflict of loyalties for the remnants of Sicarius's empire?


I think that is a done deal, although LL never fails to surprise. The Lion is gonna have bigger problems to worry about than who controls a "fallen empire".
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby LordLucan » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:28 pm

Tyrant wrote:Interesting that Guilliman named the Lion as his successor first, and Vulkan second. I remember from an earlier part that Vulkan is seeking the whereabouts of the Lion; if he finds him, I wonder if that will create any conflict of loyalties for the remnants of Sicarius's empire?


Perhaps. But as hawk mentions, Lion himself is in a bit of a bother himself... to be explained in a late rpart of course...

:D
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby Gaius Marius » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:51 pm

Mr Stereo1 wrote:Are the Dark Angels still around?


Cypher at least was seen rescuing Logan Grimnar's company from the Necrons, although Grimnar himself stayed behind to hold the door.
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby LordLucan » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:07 pm

Ah yes indeedy. Cypher also, if you recall, lacks the Lion Sword now. He seems to have used it at some point...

Again, I haven't forgotten, have no fear. :D
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby Mr Stereo1 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:57 pm

LordLucan wrote:Guilliman did do that though. He became a High Lord after the Heresy, and effectively became the highest ranking ruler of the Imperium after the (now crippled) Emperor.


I know he was, by most accounts, de facto military commander, but the Codex Astartes seems the only real mark left by his authority. Considering how efficient Ultramar is was we know he was a skilled administrator. If he was in charge, I can't see the Administratum still existing. If establishing fiefs under the command of Astartes chapters as benign dictatorships was the only way to maintain Order, then I would see Guilliman as doing so.
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:30 pm

Mr Stereo1 wrote:I know he was, by most accounts, de facto military commander, but the Codex Astartes seems the only real mark left by his authority. Considering how efficient Ultramar is was we know he was a skilled administrator. If he was in charge, I can't see the Administratum still existing. If establishing fiefs under the command of Astartes chapters as benign dictatorships was the only way to maintain Order, then I would see Guilliman as doing so.


What's to say that Ultramar still isn't as efficient today?
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby LordLucan » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:39 pm

Also bear in mind Guilliman was incapacitated relatively early in his reign as a High Lord, so we cannot be certain of what his wider plans were.
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby Mr Stereo1 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:59 pm

shadowhawk2008 wrote:
Mr Stereo1 wrote:I know he was, by most accounts, de facto military commander, but the Codex Astartes seems the only real mark left by his authority. Considering how efficient Ultramar is was we know he was a skilled administrator. If he was in charge, I can't see the Administratum still existing. If establishing fiefs under the command of Astartes chapters as benign dictatorships was the only way to maintain Order, then I would see Guilliman as doing so.


What's to say that Ultramar still isn't as efficient today?


I'm sorry, but do you mean 40k 'today' or 60k 'today'?

In the former, it is very efficient. Enough so it can provide tithes to the Imperium, and support a well equipped chapter of Astartes, without breaking the backs of it's people... after a Tyranid invasion no less.
In the latter, well, what's left of Ultramar?

@LordLucan

You have a point, of course. I'd have imagined Guilliman would have informed at least the Primarchs who backed his reforms of his long term plans though.
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby LordLucan » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:24 pm

Maybe he did. However, most went missing not long after the scouring.
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:12 am

Mr Stereo1 wrote:I'm sorry, but do you mean 40k 'today' or 60k 'today'?

In the former, it is very efficient. Enough so it can provide tithes to the Imperium, and support a well equipped chapter of Astartes, without breaking the backs of it's people... after a Tyranid invasion no less.
In the latter, well, what's left of Ultramar?

@LordLucan

You have a point, of course. I'd have imagined Guilliman would have informed at least the Primarchs who backed his reforms of his long term plans though.


I meant both of course. From 40k to 60k, people may have degenerated into what they are "now" but Sicarius still had a legion of warriors to call upon. After the Angyll invasion though, its pretty much a ruin.

Kind of like how the Marines Errant got a shattered Badab sector as their base of operations after the end of the Badab War.
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby Sipahi Commando » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:57 pm

Was [DATA EXPUNGED]?

Nevertheless, this was pretty much the most EPIC update to the Age of Dusk, but I felt that the end was a little forced.
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Re: The Age of Dusk [60K] [SECTION 13 up!]

Postby LordLucan » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:30 pm

Which bit? The bit where Titus refuses to give up command? I just thought that would be in character for the scheming sychophant. That was his big moment to become master finally. Titus was never the best warrior however (and was also incredibly old at that point. Not as spectacularly old as Sicarius, but still old), so wasn't at his peak. Folkar was however.

EDIT: Also, who is Matthaeus Bardus? I don't recognise the name.
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