Sentinels of Terra supplement

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Re: Sentinels of Terra supplement - SPOILERS

Postby Fenris » Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:10 pm

Sorry,i'm going to be petty with this post,so feel free to skip it.

The 7th legion were more than builders and castellans.At their root they were the most direct expression of the Emperor design of uniting humanity:they were crusaders.
Fortresses solidified conquests,and the 7th legion searched conquest with focussed hunger.While fortresses and ordered domains would sprang up in their wake,the 7th legion would always be moving on,invading uncompliant domains and pushing the frontiers even as they reinforced what they had just taken


From HH:Extermination

PLEASE tell me once more how the Fists as crusaders make no sense,i'm all ears.
Thrusting his thunder hammer into the sky, he shouted—so that all could hear "Primarch.Progenitor, to your glory!"
"And to the glory of Him on Earth!" his brothers bellowed in response
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Re: Sentinels of Terra supplement - SPOILERS

Postby Bellarius » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:19 pm

Fenris wrote:PLEASE tell me once more how the Fists as crusaders make no sense,i'm all ears.


Look back through previous posts. If you actually take the time to read them rather than just refuting them on the spot you might find a few examples.

Or, if you can't be bothered to do that: Here it is at least somewhat more justifiable given the fact they were a legion at some point, and yet to be split off into separate chapters. Many of their surviving elements were split off into varying groups and forces, some following their crusader nature, such as the Black Templars and the like, others retaining their emphasis upon siege warfare and conflict, the Imperial Fists and Excoriators. That quote is about the legion, not the chapter, with about ten thousand years difference.
Last edited by Bellarius on Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Sentinels of Terra supplement

Postby Athelassan » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:29 pm

[Double-post deleted (and this one added, just for the sake of it)

I've also removed the large "SPOILERS" moniker from the thread title since the book's been out for nearly six months now. -Ath]
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Re: Sentinels of Terra supplement - SPOILERS

Postby Fenris » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:32 pm

Bellarius wrote:
Fenris wrote:PLEASE tell me once more how the Fists as crusaders make no sense,i'm all ears.


Look back through previous posts. If you actually take the time to read them rather than just refuting them on the spot you might find a few examples.

Or, if you can't be bothered to do that: Here it is at least somewhat more justifiable given the fact they were a legion at some point, and yet to be split off into separate chapters. Many of their surviving elements were split off into varying groups and forces, some following their crusader nature, such as the Black Templars and the like, others retaining their emphasis upon siege warfare and conflict, the Imperial Fists and Excoriators. That quote is about the legion, not the chapter, with about ten thousand years difference.

Image
Curse you codex Ultramarine from second edition for clearly stating that after the heresy the IMPERIAL FIST CHAPTER is a crusading chapter.
Oh wait,not A crusading chapter.THE MOST CRUSADING CHAPTER OF ALL THE CRUSADING CHAPTERS OUT THERE.

Probably Ward went back in time to write that.I guess.Must be that.

Again,please,keep giving me reason to say that,on this,you are dead wrong.Face it:you are acting like this was a new horrible thing created by Big Bad Matt when it's been in the background since forever.

Bringing it back into the spotlight (both with SoT and as a pre-existing character trait in HH3) also helps mark them as more than the ultramarines carbon-copies with more dakka against walls that the IA made them out to be (and that they have been since then) and keeps them different from the Templars (since the black guys renounced the siegy-stuff and the codex astartes in exchange to remember how to wield a chainsword)
They are still ultramarines copies,with more dakka against walls (because that has not been changed) AND the added flavour of being proactive in searching faces to cave in with their fists and bolters.

You argued a few post ago that this makes them more like they were described in "2nd edition,times when you could call everything a poorer version of the Ultramarines/a thing they were supposed to have moved on from".I honestly see it doing the exact opposite,it makes them more different from the Ultras than what we got with 3rd edition in a way that makes sense in light of EVERYTHING ELSE in the background surrounding them.

But once again,you'll ignore all my points,probably.

Oh,and since i forgot to answer this slightly off-topic part
Which is of course completely ignoring the fact the Imperium can only create terminator suits at slightly above the attrition rate and the situation which cased that loss in the first place. Also ignoring their unique mentality, chapter structure, relationships, approach to war and ideology. Yes, i'm sure all of that was nothing of value, just speak to all those Iron Hands players spitting blood over what Ward did to their chapter in Codex: Clan Raukaan.

Slightly above the attrition rate:still,new chapter (even less-than-a-millennium-old ones) have no problem fielding terminators.You guess that the IH could ask for one or ten spare terminator armours each few centuries.

Unique mentality and ideology:you mean,like the one that makes dreadnought the pinnacle of fusion between SM and machine for them?Seems to contrast the fact that they never asked for a few replacement chassis from their best buddies THE ORGANIZATION THAT CAN PRODUCE THEM IN THE WHOLE GALAXY if needed

IH players are brooding over the fact that he made clan companies into standard codex companies when they have always been described as special and unique formations,nothing more,nothing less.And that's,actually,a valid complaint.
Last edited by Fenris on Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:45 pm, edited 9 times in total.
Thrusting his thunder hammer into the sky, he shouted—so that all could hear "Primarch.Progenitor, to your glory!"
"And to the glory of Him on Earth!" his brothers bellowed in response
-
A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked
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Re: Sentinels of Terra supplement

Postby sam vimes » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:42 pm

There still the red shirts of 40k lol has there ever been a reason for that? I quite like the fists and my joking aside it is odd that they seem to get seven shades kicked out of them all the time, come to that its the bloody templars that seem to do ok in terms of casualties and these are the who zerg rush the enemy... :?
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"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

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Re: Sentinels of Terra supplement

Postby Fenris » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:45 pm

sam vimes wrote:There still the red shirts of 40k lol has there ever been a reason for that? I quite like the fists and my joking aside it is odd that they seem to get seven shades kicked out of them all the time, come to that its the bloody templars that seem to do ok in terms of casualties and these are the who zerg rush the enemy... :?

Fists act as the stone walls of the Imperium.Like a wall they get chipped and demolished but as long as they hold,it turns out worth it :lol:


Less in-universe answer?

They were turned into Ultramarines-2 ("they follow the CA in ways that are second only to the sons of Guilliman..." and all that stuff),and the Ultramarines were turned into the poster boys of the Space marines

So...When you want to show how big and bad an enemy is and you can't use the most famous Space marines out there (because as poster boys they must be the shining never-gets-beaten-into-a-pulp ones),you turn to the closest thing...

The Fists were damned by proximity,that's it.
Thrusting his thunder hammer into the sky, he shouted—so that all could hear "Primarch.Progenitor, to your glory!"
"And to the glory of Him on Earth!" his brothers bellowed in response
-
A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked
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Re: Sentinels of Terra supplement

Postby Athelassan » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:10 pm

Fenris wrote:
They were turned into Ultramarines-2 ("they follow the CA in ways that are second only to the sons of Guilliman..." and all that stuff),and the Ultramarines were turned into the poster boys of the Space marines

So...When you want to show how big and bad an enemy is and you can't use the most famous Space marines out there (because as poster boys they must be the shining never-gets-beaten-into-a-pulp ones),you turn to the closest thing...

The Fists were damned by proximity,that's it.

Yeah, I think this is it. They are - and pretty much always have been - the most prominent chapter - certainly the most prominent Codex chapter - not to have their own tabletop codex. So when you want to beat someone up... Fists ahoy!

Not just the Imperial Fists, mind; the Crimson Fists, who were for a while their closest rivals as "first among also-rans", have also taken a kicking. But since it was established that the Crimson Fists were all but wiped out in the attack on Rynn's World* there's a limit to how many of them you can kill, so the Imperial Fists take the strain.

Ath

*Apparently Pedro Cantor was named after Rick Priestley's mate Pete Cantor, who helped with the playtesting for Rogue Trader and wasn't a very good player. Hence the embarrassing way he blew up his own fortress-monastery, presumably.
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Re: Sentinels of Terra supplement

Postby Fenris » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:28 pm

Not just the Imperial Fists, mind; the Crimson Fists, who were for a while their closest rivals as "first among also-rans", have also taken a kicking. But since it was established that the Crimson Fists were all but wiped out in the attack on Rynn's World* there's a limit to how many of them you can kill, so the Imperial Fists take the strain.

Also the fact that the Templars can take enormous losses with no one noticing it because no one in the Imperium (bar probably Helbrecht) actually knows how many thousands of them are spread around the galaxy zerging stuff :lol:

I mean,grimaldus loses more than a standard marine company at Helsreach and the thing barely registers (and the Helsreach crusade was only one of the crusades active on Armageddon,so the total chapter losses must have been way higher than that)
Thrusting his thunder hammer into the sky, he shouted—so that all could hear "Primarch.Progenitor, to your glory!"
"And to the glory of Him on Earth!" his brothers bellowed in response
-
A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked
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Re: Sentinels of Terra supplement

Postby Ogun » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:37 pm

IH players are brooding over the fact that he made clan companies into standard codex companies when they have always been described as special and unique formations,nothing more,nothing less.And that's,actually,a valid complaint.


They were a unique formation, but there has always been a slight conflict here in that the Iron Hands have always been listed as Codex adherent as well. Personally I preferred the IA clan system but I can see the chain of logic towards pushing them back into closer Codex adherence.
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Re: Sentinels of Terra supplement

Postby Fenris » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:25 am

Necroing the thread forgiggles.

Looks like we have to thank Matt for giving us super-recruitment as a trait,it seems that in the new Necron codex the space robots wipe out 3 full companies in a single battle :roll:

What was i saying just 4 posts above? (well,to be fair they also wipe out a full UM company this time so it's "balanced" ) :roll:
Thrusting his thunder hammer into the sky, he shouted—so that all could hear "Primarch.Progenitor, to your glory!"
"And to the glory of Him on Earth!" his brothers bellowed in response
-
A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked
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Re: Sentinels of Terra supplement

Postby Fenris » Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:42 pm

*slowclap*

Well played BL,well played.Everything prior has been outdone this time :cry:
Thrusting his thunder hammer into the sky, he shouted—so that all could hear "Primarch.Progenitor, to your glory!"
"And to the glory of Him on Earth!" his brothers bellowed in response
-
A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked
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Re: Sentinels of Terra supplement

Postby Fenris » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:04 am

I should probably give up on this topic but...Fall of Cadia is kind of relevant

The Imperial Fists held their ground with a tenacity worthy of their long-dead Primarch, but with every passing moment, more of the fortress shipsuccumbed to the infestation. Already the machine spirits of its dorsal batteries eroded beneath the Warpsmiths’ insidious designs. Garadon knew that a planetary bombardment would soon follow. The last testament of Dorn’s great prize would be one of failure – worse, it would be one of treachery.
Faced with the unthinkable, Garadon took the only course open to him. This was a foe that could not be bested by bolter and chainsword, nor even through the unswerving valour of the Adeptus Astartes. Withdrawing his forces from the infected sections, he ordered Phalanx’s weaponry turned inward. With them, he would cut away the disease as would a chirurgeon. Garadon felt each strike of the fusion beamers as if upon his own flesh, but the necessity of the hour allowed for no compromise.

Fully one-tenth of Phalanx’s mass was lost to that scouring, either obliterated by the strike of its own weaponry, or cut free by the same to suffer a fiery demise in Terra’s atmosphere. But the sacrifice had been worth it. As Holy Terra consumed Phalanx’sravaged flesh, the machine virus’ hold was shattered. Seizing the opportunity, Garadon set Phalanx onto a blind heading, hurling the fortress adrift into the tides of the Immaterium. Whatever the fortress’ fate, it would not be wielded as a weapon by the Ruinous Powers. With the worst of all fates cheated, Garadon rallied what remained of his battle-brothers and set forth to scour the last of Shon’tu’s presence from Phalanx.

Alas, Garadon had underestimated his foes. Though the bulk of the Iron Warriors had perished during the excision of Phalanx’scorruption, the fury and resolve of Be’lakor’s Daemons had heightened the moment the fortress plunged into the Immaterium. Thus, though Shon’tu’s death beneath the vengeful power fists of Terminator Squad Furan did much to restore lost honour, it did little to alter Phalanx’sfate. His forces weary and diminished, Garadon elected to make his stand in the Chamber of Storms, beneath the granite gaze of Chapter Masters long-dead – witnesses to their inheritors’ valour. As the golden cloth of the 3rd Company’s banner defiantly unfurled, Be’lakor’s mocking laughter echoed around the chamber.

The defenders of Phalanx gave no ground that day. The roar of boltguns vied with the screams of dying Daemons and the blasphemous curses of the damned. Hellfire blackened the walls, and shrivelled the souls of the fallen. Be’lakor spent his forces carelessly, hurling them into oblivion with the surety of a general on the brink of victory. Malice and disappointment doubtless played their part also, for with Phalanx’sdeparture from Terra, Be’lakor’s quest to overmatch Abaddon’s glories had met with rank failure. Once again, the first-damned had slipped into the shadow of a mortal champion. Thus Be’lakor spent the coin of his thralls’ lives carelessly, confident that the tides of the Warp would replenish his ranks where those of Phalanx’s defenders would only diminish.

But not all forces within the unpredictable Immaterium bend their knee to the dark designs of Chaos. As Be’lakor at last deigned to join the battle, one such faction drew nigh. Hellfire found itself contested by the flames of sacrifice as the spectral battle-brothers of the Legion of the Damned entered the fray. Daemons withered in the spirit-fires, and no matter how Be’lakor railed and pleaded with his dark masters, his ranks were not renewed.
Caught between the Sons of Dorn and the sepulchral warriors of the Legion, the Daemons’ grip upon Phalanx slackened. The Chamber of Storms, no longer the site of a last stand, now became the stage upon which a great victory played out. By the time Be’lakor, his undying flesh rent and pummelled by the grasp of Garadon’s power fist, cast himself into the nothingness beyond Phalanx’s Gellar field, the outcome was no longer in doubt. Phalanx had been saved.

As Phalanx’screw wrestled to bring the mighty fortress under control, Garadon took stock of his losses. The price of victory had been steep. A tenth of Phalanx’sstructure had been lost to save the remainder. The ravaged whole was marred by altogether too many wrecked weapons emplacements, launch bays and shield projectors, and manned by a crew little above half strength. Of Garadon’s 3rd Company, the Sentinels of Terra, only forty-eight battle-brothers would fight again. Of Sergeant Furan’s demi-company of the 1st, a mere fifteen survived. As seemed ever the case, a great victory for the Sons of Dorn had come at an equally great cost


You dont say
In orbit, the weapons batteries of the battle-fortress Phalanx rumbled to life. Already the Black Fleet was reacting to the presence in its midst, but Phalanx’s ageing shield generators held firm beneath broadside after broadside.


Captain Garadon didn’t care. In recent days he’d fought alongside the spectral Legion of the Damned. He’d torn the heart out of his own sacred charge to prevent it falling into the hands of the foe. And he’d witnessed a crippled Imperial Navy transport dock with Phalanx’s forecastle amidst the tumult of the Warp. So many things he’d been sure he’d never see. So many events he swore he’d never understand. But this? Phalanx alone against the Black Fleet? This was retribution long overdue. But where was the Legion of the Damned? As Phalanxhad entered realspace they’d faded to nothing, as silent in departure as arrival.


Phalanx bore down on the Will of Eternity, shields crackling as it brushed aside the leading edge of the Black Fleet. At Garadon’s command, flank batteries engaged the traitor battleships, but its formidable prow guns lay silent. Phalanx had suffered too much from the ravages of time and its recent sacrifices, and its master sought to make sure that first planet-cracking salvo counted.


Another vessel would have perished already, battered into drifting scrap by the fury of the Black Fleet, but Phalanx was the fist of Dorn, his first and greatest gift to the Emperor of Mankind. Even decaying and under-crewed, no other vessel in all the heavens was its peer. Even without the escort fleet that was its right, the mighty battle-station held its own. But it could not do so forever. Already,sensor panels lit up in warning as the main body of Abaddon’s fleet broke orbit to engage. Garadon paid those warnings no heed. There would be no surrender, no retreat. If this was to be Phalanx’s last battle, then so be it. Thus Garadon held his course, straight into the Will of Eternity’s black maw


Flame gouted from the Will of Eternity’s flank. It was the tiniest of pinpricks, insignificant against the Blackstone Fortress’ vast bulk. But with it, the shields across the lower portside quadrant sputtered and died. From the strategium of Phalanx, Garadon witnessed the moment of weakness; witnessed, and embraced it. The vessel’s main batteries, dormant for centuries, roared with a fury to make their long-dead creator proud. The first salvo cracked the Will of Eternity’s gleaming armour. The eleventh pounded it to dust.
Traitor cruisers drove hard for Phalanx’s main batteries, their captains ramming headlong into the fortress in the hope of halting their fury. Some guns fell silent, but not enough. Never enough. Phalanx gnawed at the Blackstone’s obdurate hide, battering ever closer to its heart, inch by unforgiving inch. Garadon ignored the wailing klaxons warning of hull-breaches and the worried reports from his strategium crew. This was the Blackstone’s hour to die, and Phalanx was to be its executioner

:o

Also,seems that Helion,Lysander and half the chapter just decided to up the stakes a little bit and attack Medrengard directly.
Thrusting his thunder hammer into the sky, he shouted—so that all could hear "Primarch.Progenitor, to your glory!"
"And to the glory of Him on Earth!" his brothers bellowed in response
-
A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked
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