The Outcast Dead

For talking openly about the spoilers from Black Library fiction.

Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby Liliedhe » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:10 pm

McNeill explained the Host on his Facebook page. They are a representation of the Legions and there to remind the people of who fights for them...
"You were a warleader, a fighter, when did you gain such illuminating insight into the minds of others?"
"I learned such things as you and your brothers applied brand to my flesh and parted skin with rasp and knife," snarled Astelan. "When your witches tried to prise open my mind they opened me for an instant and I stared back."
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby Major Rawne » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:20 pm

I should read his blog more often then.
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby Xisor » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:50 pm

Major Rawne wrote:I should read his blog more often then.


Alternatively, pertinent-yet-obscure (or freshly created) information should be included in the book. :geek:
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby flick » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:30 am

Liliedhe wrote:McNeill explained the Host on his Facebook page. They are a representation of the Legions and there to remind the people of who fights for them...


Did he explain, any other confusing parts of the book?
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby Liliedhe » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:18 am

You mean the timeline issues? Not thatI'm aware of it.
"You were a warleader, a fighter, when did you gain such illuminating insight into the minds of others?"
"I learned such things as you and your brothers applied brand to my flesh and parted skin with rasp and knife," snarled Astelan. "When your witches tried to prise open my mind they opened me for an instant and I stared back."
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby flick » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:10 pm

I wonder if he's been asked any awkward questions, at Q&A sessions?
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby Xisor » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:08 am

flick wrote:I wonder if he's been asked any awkward questions, at Q&A sessions?


It's been on my mind re:Black Library Live. My instinct is to skip his Q&A as I'm not particularly keen on hearing gushing for Ultramarines/Iron Warriors, but then I'm exceedingly keen to hear good talk on TOD. What I definitely don't want to see is people being arsey. Which worries me. Some people may forget that they're no longer on the internet.

Still, it could go wondrously and change everyone's minds...my own included.

It'll be cool hearing the notes. I wonder if they'd video it...
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby Major Rawne » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:35 pm

Xisor wrote:
flick wrote:I wonder if he's been asked any awkward questions, at Q&A sessions?


It's been on my mind re:Black Library Live. My instinct is to skip his Q&A as I'm not particularly keen on hearing gushing for Ultramarines/Iron Warriors, but then I'm exceedingly keen to hear good talk on TOD. What I definitely don't want to see is people being arsey. Which worries me. Some people may forget that they're no longer on the internet.

Still, it could go wondrously and change everyone's minds...my own included.

It'll be cool hearing the notes. I wonder if they'd video it...

Well i'm certainly going to pose him some questions. Mark my words.
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby Malcador » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:22 pm

Ok, how about this for an explanation.

Magnus finds out about the upcoming heresy, and prepares countermeasures(contacting Horus, and the Emperor).

First countermeasure fails, and Horus becomes a puppet to Chaos.

He prepares to execute the next countermeasure and launches his spirit into the warp, through the webway and into the golden throne.

The message reaches the Emperor only after Istvann II and V, becoming useless.

Russ comes to Prospero and it hits the fan.

Now, here's the punchline :drumroll:

What if the Emperor FORESAW™ what Magnus was doing, or what he was about to do, and sent Russ to apprehend him, only declaring Magnus a traitor when his spirit reached the Golden Throne, for appearance's sake?

... Well?

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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby flick » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:25 am

In Prospero burns, the main character suggests that Horus is a traitor, while on the bridge of the SW main ship, on route to destroy Prospero, and he is pretty much laughed at. Then when he meets a chaos spirit imitating Horus, on the surface of Prospero, it tells him that Horus will be struck down by a Anathame roughly a YEAR later.

Which makes you wonder if McNeil read the book, because the outcast dead begins with Horus already a traitor, and BEFORE the wolves are sent to get Magnus. :?

I'd be interested to see the official response.
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:20 am

There will be no official response. Other than hints and what not in later books that somehow validate the changed timeline. BL isn't really in the habit of giving "official responses".
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby sigillite » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:43 pm

I've been trying to wrap my head around this for months now. I really hate this book, the worst in the series by far. Here's my attempt to rectify the main (but not only) blunder...


Possibly?: The Emperor had some idea of what Magnus was going to do and sent Russ to try and prevent it. Horus changes Russ' orders and Russ destroys Prospero. Tzeentch conviently has Magnus' warning arrive far too late (after Prospero has been destroyed) to have any positive consequence. Once the damage is done, word gets out that the Wolves had been sent, but in fact this had already happened long before.
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby Xisor » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:53 pm

Sig & Malcador - Though it's not satisfactory, the idea that the Emperor foresaw it is more palatable than the way it's presented. I don't recall the specifics of the novel so clearly now, but it seems to me it's the most...necessary reading of events.

Moreover, it is possible that that's what Graham intended. The published edition of TOD I have does seem to have a few...errors in it, a missing paragraph containing hints of speculation might well accommodate all this.

That said...it's quite a big deal to include without ballyhooing. This does strike me as the most agreeable of angles, for now.

Kudos to you both!

(Wait, what the hell. Malcador & Sigilite solving this? What sort of jape is this, old man of Terra!? :lol: )
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby Duke_Leto » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:18 pm

Of course it could just be a big c o c k up by McNeil that the editors also failed to notice (stranger things have happened at sea).
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby Xisor » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:22 pm

Duke_Leto wrote:Of course it could just be a big c o c k up by McNeil that the editors also failed to notice (stranger things have happened at sea).


Quite possibly. I wish it were a publishing blunder - that it's simply in the wrong place. Pop it to the start of the book and things'd make fine sense (except the actions/reactions of important characters, thus it's not a mere wrong draft, I fear.)

I'll oscillate between blunder and foresight, I think.
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby Malcador » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:37 pm

Xisor wrote:
(Wait, what the hell. Malcador & Sigilite solving this? What sort of jape is this, old man of Terra!? :lol: )


An awesome coincidence :)
Indeed, it appears the warp did it :D

Anyway, has anyone else been struck with a sudden desire to play chess after reading this book? or am I the only one...
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby Flashgordon » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:05 pm

Well, deliverance lost points out that the space wolves where sent out to prospero several months before isstvaan. Invalidating ToD imo. Or lets just say its a different timeline.
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby flick » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:41 pm

shadowhawk2008 wrote:There will be no official response. Other than hints and what not in later books that somehow validate the changed timeline. BL isn't really in the habit of giving "official responses".


I can picture some PR guy at the base of the steps at GW HQ, giving a prepared statement,to an angry crowd of nerds.

Warp travel has altered the....a matter of perception really....it was actually all a dream actually ect ect..

*Crowd get's ugly*
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby flick » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:45 pm

Xisor wrote:
Duke_Leto wrote:Of course it could just be a big c o c k up by McNeil that the editors also failed to notice (stranger things have happened at sea).


Quite possibly. I wish it were a publishing blunder - that it's simply in the wrong place. Pop it to the start of the book and things'd make fine sense (except the actions/reactions of important characters, thus it's not a mere wrong draft, I fear.)

I'll oscillate between blunder and foresight, I think.


I just can't see it as a accidental blunder,it means McNeil missed the mistake, and so did the editor. Don't they have other people who check for weirdness? Of course, McNeil might of just not read Prospero Burns...
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Re: The Outcast Dead

Postby revelation » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:06 am

flick wrote:Of course, McNeil might of just not read Prospero Burns...


This would be utterly horrible.

It could also have just been a massive brain fart, as others have suggested. Let's hope neither of these things are true.
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