While personally I think such anti-intellectualism, if you want to call it that, has no place whatever on a forum like this, a fenced off place to discuss such things is a useful place to have. Maybe the opt-in will create a kind of cultural apartheid, but that’s for the moderators to observe and to have the initiative to say they were wrong the first time around and then go on to fix it one day.
As it is, we can only consider it a well-intentioned trial, and open to modification, since it’s been placed here a priori by the mods, and only time will tell if it works well as-is.
P.S. As it stands, I’d like to call for a bit more transparency as far as moderation is concerned; all of this confidentiality is absurd. The mods refused ‘inflammatory’ debate on the IOT boards because Boc or Bloodsage or one of those guys took exception to something I said about the USA, and I responded with incredulity that someone could be offended on behalf of an inanimate superstructural concept (a ‘state’). This was construed as insufficiently apologetic; hence the action that was subsequently taken. Nobody is saying that the mods reacted proportionally, reasonably or fairly, but they’re doing the best they can do under the circumstances: instances like that are difficult to moderate without some pre-agreed notion of what one is permitted to be offended at. The sub-forum has that advantage I think.
Raziel4707 wrote:Do we have to call it that? I'd rather think that we could meet each other in the middle and discuss high-end thinking without resorting to terminology that many of us are unlikely to have encountered. To be honest, resorting to technical terminology makes people who are perfectly capable of understanding the content of an argument feel as if they are abroad without a phrase-book. People do not like to feel as if they are being talked down to, even if that is not your intent. I do not feel the need personally to proclude everything from IOT, but it is merely simpler to draw a line and say that serious discussion goes in one place, the fluff goes into IOT.
A very valid point. Perhaps if we give it a certain amount of time as-is, we could then open up a thread within the lounge for suggestions for improvement? Perhaps a couple of months to see how it goes before we start picking it apart?
However, the chain of events that you have described is not accurate. Myself and Lucan both called you on the generalisation some time before complaints were received, and I think we can agree after my initial warning, things got out of hand. For my own two pennies, this should have been a private matter between ourselves, not a matter for public discussion, just as I would prefer to offer someone the simple good manners to not publically discuss my personal views about how to deal with a disciplinary matter. I utterly, flatly refuse to discuss the entirety of what transpired between yourself and the moderators in a public forum, as this would set a dangerous precendent for the future, but I believe that you are aware that what eventually transpired is in no way fully represented by the paragraph quoted above.
Raziel4707 wrote:Do we have to call it that? <outlining of some anti-intellectual desires>
Green River wrote:Raziel4707 wrote:However, the chain of events that you have described is not accurate. Myself and Lucan both called you on the generalisation some time before complaints were received, and I think we can agree after my initial warning, things got out of hand. For my own two pennies, this should have been a private matter between ourselves, not a matter for public discussion, just as I would prefer to offer someone the simple good manners to not publically discuss my personal views about how to deal with a disciplinary matter. I utterly, flatly refuse to discuss the entirety of what transpired between yourself and the moderators in a public forum, as this would set a dangerous precendent for the future, but I believe that you are aware that what eventually transpired is in no way fully represented by the paragraph quoted above.
Of course you're right. In any case I can't remember what happened in the exact order (fallibility of human memory and all that), but I thought that the example would prove illustrative in this case; as I remember it, the thread became charged because I challenged the grounds upon which the offended parties became offended, but the point is that there were no hard and fast rules about what one is permitted to be offended by in the usual IOT forum. But then, I have this irritating way of incorporating my apologies into an ongoing argument, and then utilising the fact that I apologised in a kind of 'told you so, that proves my point!' way, which is nine times out of ten construed as disingenuous. I honestly think, however, that the 'different space' of the new forum provides enough of an objectivising barrier between the participants and the subject being discussed that instances of offence such as this will be many times more unlikely.
schaferwhat‽ wrote:Raz originally didn't say anything as a moderator but later edited in a moderator based comment.
schaferwhat‽ wrote:Maybe I was wrong, maybe I should've just shut up and ignore any moderation that isn't against me directly. It'd probably save everyone else here the bother of having to deal with me.
shadowhawk2008 wrote:2 - The 'scary red colouring' indicates that I am giving an official warning to everyone in my capacity as a moderator.
Cross-cultural differences: those two sentences come off as highly confrontational, as if you're setting a challenge. You'll get to wield the banhammer with talk like that, but mainly by first creating the environment for someone to get suitably annoyed and come out with other such quips.shadowhawk2008 wrote:3 - I am from an entirely different culture than almost everyone on these boards, so if the manner in which I use certain phrases is objectionable in any way than tough luck. The playing field is never level.
shadowhawk2008 wrote:4 - Arguing about the meanings/usage of certain words is hardly the best way to even have an argument in the first place yes? (Re: contacting the moderator team).
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