How are we?

Extraneous communication, genuflection, adulation, dissection and admiration should make its way in here.

Re: How are we?

Postby Bod the inquisitor » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:18 am

E-books are the invention of the devil and should be banished to the depths of hell for eternity, well perhaps a bit harsh but one must stand with ones convictions :lol:

Everyone has pointed out the excellent reasons why the printed book is so superior. The smell feel and shear sight of them; along with the sheer happiness generated by a visit to the book shop as mentioned by Squiggle. This is made doubly so for me as one of my favourite writing spots is a COSTA in a Waterstone’s.

However, we are perhaps missing two vital aspects of e-books;
One: they are introducing more and more people to books and reading literature. It’s also introducing these readers to a wider range of literature than they might otherwise choose to read. This can only be a good thing.

Two: they are reducing the cost of publication and hence increasing the number of new authors, though some may argue this is not a good thing, reduction in standards and all that. Me, I say bolder dash and pithal to that. Give the reader some credit they won’t payout for awfully written stories, or waste their time reading them. This will maintain quality, I think, umm hope :?

As to E-books replacing the printed book, I like most think it won’t happen. They may become rarer and more expensive as a true luxury item, but not completely extinct. However, there is perhaps one cautionary note to this point of view, the often painful and slow demise of news papers. A situation blamed by some upon the rise of the internet; though some newspapers are moving to the internet. It remains to be seen if people will pay on the internet for news, when it’s free from so many other sources.
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Re: How are we?

Postby Raziel4707 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:20 am

I thoroughly agree with all of that and mostly view the ereaders as convenient space savers. I love the tactile nature of books but having dozens of paper copies of something like Hammer and Bolter lying around would drive me nuts as I live in a tiny cottage. I sorely miss the days of gatefold and digipak edition CDs with proper artwork, sleeve notes that went beyond sycophantic name dropping and thanks to those kind people who give me a bunch of free guitars because they sponsored the artist. I miss actual artwork that isn't just live pictures of drunk band members acting like prats, when huge pictures of Eddie the Head loomed over me in Virgin Megastore and when you could go into a shop and ask for recommendations for books, films and music and the person who worked there would tell you their opinion, not whatever was on this week's staff newsletter that needed flogging because Simon Cowl (see what I did there?) slepped with Maggie from accounts.

Long may that tactile nature continue and the sign of the best book in a collection being the one that looks like it's been through the washing machine. As an addition to our hobby the eReader is an excellent advancement but not a replacement. That said, who knows how the next few generations will feel if they don't have the proper book shops and libraries to go to? *shrugs*
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Re: How are we?

Postby Raziel4707 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:22 am

Bod the inquisitor wrote:Two: they are reducing the cost of publication and hence increasing the number of new authors, though some may argue this is not a good thing, reduction in standards and all that. Me, I say bolder dash and pithal to that. Give the reader some credit they won’t payout for awfully written stories, or waste their time reading them. This will maintain quality, I think, umm hope :?



I respectfully refer you to the current wave of vampire genre fiction, with the Twilight "saga" as a key point.
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Re: How are we?

Postby Colonel Mustard » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:04 am

Raziel4707 wrote:
Bod the inquisitor wrote:Two: they are reducing the cost of publication and hence increasing the number of new authors, though some may argue this is not a good thing, reduction in standards and all that. Me, I say bolder dash and pithal to that. Give the reader some credit they won’t payout for awfully written stories, or waste their time reading them. This will maintain quality, I think, umm hope :?



I respectfully refer you to the current wave of vampire genre fiction, with the Twilight "saga" as a key point.

To be fair, the audience of those is composed almost entirely of preteen girls who, I feel compelled to point out, aren't really the most discerning of readers. And 'Twilight Moms' too, but bored housewives aren't, once again, the biggest consumers of books at the moment (in any case, that stuff is engineered to sell, simple as). Besides, we've got folks like Sarah Cawkwell, A.R. Aston and Robbie MacNiven (see what I did there?) being published at the moment, so all is most certainly not lost.

Anyway, using the Scrivener program recommended by the vunderbar folks of the Bolthole to write an English essay, and it's making it a damn sight easier and quicker than normal without detracting from the
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Re: How are we?

Postby Raziel4707 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:59 am

There's truth in your words but that's still no excuse for poor grammar. The story is pitched to the right audience but should still be written well, even if the story simply is not to my personal liking.
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Re: How are we?

Postby J D Dunsany » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:00 am

From the what?

You can't just leave us in suspense like that, man!

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Re: How are we?

Postby Colonel Mustard » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:28 am

From the quality! The quality!

*Falls to knees*

THE QUALITYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!
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Re: How are we?

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:56 am

Who on earth are Sarah Cawkwell, A.R. Aston, Robbie McNiven?????

With regards to grammatical errors etc, some of you might be surprised by Nocturne and The Outcast Dead.
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Re: How are we?

Postby Xisor » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:04 pm

shadowhawk2008 wrote:Who on earth are Sarah Cawkwell, A.R. Aston, Robbie McNiven?????

With regards to grammatical errors etc, some of you might be surprised by Nocturne and The Outcast Dead.


You had me for a sec there, SH!

I agree though, Nocturne had at least one passage with a word blatantly missing whereas with TOD I wasn't sure the entire novel was there or in the right order, but that's a criticism of Graham, brought on by the ghastly amount of typos & formatting gaffs. It's very much Imperial Armour 3 in feel.

Also, ebooks & Print on Demand = everyone lives, Rose. Just this once everybody lives!
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Re: How are we?

Postby Vivia » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:51 pm

There is a small typo that I have never seen before in any book in my copy of Sigvald, it's a "¾" in the beginning of a sentence. Must be some formatting error. :?

Saying that e-books are the work of the devil is a little over-the-top. We all love the fumes of the printed pages but e-books have other merits. They are not the same and the fill different needs, they don't replace each other. One of them is storage, a lot of people in the world have a very limited area to live in, for them having e-books is a revolution. It's better to have something to read than nothing at all. Audio books fulfil other needs as well.
All the formats have a place in our hearts. :)

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Re: How are we?

Postby groovysl » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:41 pm

I'm a fairly recent convert to e-books, they are now my preferred medium where available.
In my single days I had a 2 bedroom apartment, my 3,000 physical books didn't leave much wallspace. Part of settling down with Jen was an agreement that the book count would go down, and when I moved house only 500 or so came with me. So the storage saving of ebooks is very useful.
I find that my Kindle offers a visual reading experience as good as paper (for text books), although I do miss the tactile experience of a paperback stuck between my fingers.
Where it falls down for me is on reference volumes, flicking back and forth is nowhere near as friendly as "real" books, and illustrated works. There the Kindle app on my IPAD helps a bit, but I do find the IPAD screen more straining to read from, and switching between Kindle and pad in the same book feels ludicrous. It's also not the same browsing the Amazon store or other sites, the new books section of Forbidden Planet has a place in my heart that they don't fill.
On the up side, lovely free classics from Gutenberg, my newspaper delivered over the 'Net before I get up, the ability to order lots of lovely books for instant gratification rather than having to wait for delivery, space saving, and the convenience of being able to read on my phone when I get stuck somewhere. I've always been the sort of person who wpouldn't leave home without at least one book in case I got delayed for a couple of minutes and had to read something, now I don't need to carry my book or even a Kindle for emergencies, I can get to my latest boosk on my phone.
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Re: How are we?

Postby Rob P » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:25 pm

How are we?

How am I? Well, I had a crisis at the weekend.

Early on Sunday morning I made a trip to the local McDonalds - it's not a regular Sunday morning thing, but even if it was, don't judge!

I was listening to the radio (Signal 1, if you care) and a joke was told; you mave have heard this joke before.

Why did the chicken cross the road?

Spoiler: To get to the other side.



Prima facie this joke is not at all funny. A jellycopter is much funnier, but then it sank in and I realised the 'other side' was the afterlife. Oh dear! I had gone my whole life not realising that this joke was clearly a play on words. This chicken has suicidal tendencies - or maybe not, but it's a freakin' chicken crossing the road, of course it's looking to get to the 'other side'.

I then ordered my McDonalds and forget about this revelation until later that day.

I was driving out with my wife and kids in the afternoon and the joke returned to my mind *thwack*. I wasn't sure whether to discuss my theory with my wife, I was concerned that I was pointing out the bleeding obvious and that I has simply been too dim all these years to realise that the joke was a crafty play on words, but I asked anyway. She laughed at me and confirmed that the joke is literal and that I am adding too much meaning to it.

I still wasn't convinced and later google searched 'meaning of why did chicken cross the road'; the results did not assist me.

I have since discussed it with colleagues who also state that the punch line is literal, I should add that they also told me to 'get help' and that I shouldn't get hung up on the meaning of the joke.

But (and this is a big but) if I have created a meaning that was not intended I am claiming it and I give you the weaker follow up:

Why did the chicken cross back over?

Spoiler: Because he missed his still living loved ones



That is all.
Last edited by Rob P on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How are we?

Postby Squiggle » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:43 pm

Rob - I'd never considered that aspect to the classic joke. Wow!
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Re: How are we?

Postby Colonel Mustard » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:50 pm

I came to such a revelation a few weeks ago, and it's a surprisingly clever joke, if you think about it.
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Re: How are we?

Postby Squiggle » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:04 pm

Ah. Mustard! Glad you liked Scrivener. I think it is a fantastic piece of software!
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Re: How are we?

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:17 pm

Squiggle wrote:Ah. Mustard! Glad you liked Scrivener. I think it is a fantastic piece of software!


Havent messed around with it much yet. But the sectioning off is nice.

In other news, I sent off a short story pitch yesterday. Big hopes for it. /fingers crossed Now to focus on getting some feedback done for LL and working on my forumfic.
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Re: How are we?

Postby Mossy Toes » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:53 pm

...I'd never considered it that way. The other side? Brilliant!
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Re: How are we?

Postby The_unchanged » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:20 am

Rob P my mind is blown!

Seriously, if such dualism was meant then whoever invented this joke was a genius. If not then at least you are in this moment of discovery, a visionary! :idea:
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Re: How are we?

Postby Xisor » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:53 am

Yep, Rob P, you blew my mind with that.

Well, not blew my mind, but I'm mightily impressed with it. It feels like discovering the truth behind an ancient religion is based on a misunderstanding...but a misunderstanding of something more fantastic than the thing we know! It's difficult to articulate it's so...fundamental.

Dare I say: a realisation like that is numinous?

A bit like this song. Cheers the mind.
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Re: How are we?

Postby Rob P » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:30 pm

Xisor: You have opened my mind by directing me to the amazing juncture of science and music. I have not enjoyed such a collaboration since MC Hawking.
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