Seeing if theres interest

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Seeing if theres interest

Postby BadabTyrant » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:36 am

Hello Bolthole

BadabTyrant here, been a member since the old forum and even the offical blacklbrary ones before they were closed.

not quite sure where to put this but been asking on a few forums, myself and a few others who met at university have had an idea for a game set in the 40K universe and well I am asking to see if there is an interest before we move from concept to creating a demo/proof of concept.

(if this is in the wrong forum moderators feel free to move it and i apologise)

Basically the premise of the game is a Chapter simulator with the option to either create your own chapter or pick a chapter from the list of existing chapters.

you take the chapter from whatever founding you select and attempt to have your chapter survive until the end of .M41 undertaking its care through the various chapter masters such a chapter would have through the millennia, setting things like recruitment policies (Nobles of the world or the savages of the moon etc) combat doctrines.

does your chapter attempt to remain Codex? does it risk sanction? (we have also considered heretic and renegade options) as well as instances where you deal with either the inquisition local imperial commanders as well as other space marine chapters and ability to take part in actual campaigns and build a chapters history with famous battles and create a eventful history as well as weapons and vehicles/armour getting legacies becoming relics etc.

our plan is not just to have text that ends up being pick A,B or C which are all the same result everytime, as well as actual combat in a either stratergy based style (Xcom) or squad based style (Dawn of war/Armaggedon) when you deploy your chapter across the galaxy (we were thinking limiting the game to chosen starting segmentum or allowing all of it if we have crusading chapter options)

.Difficulty based on what Millenium you pick to start from or even what chapter you select to play if you dont make your own.
.Each power armour and terminator armour made in game with diferent bonuses (Timeframe locked so you wont see mk8 during the 2nd founding era)
.Management of your fortress monastery (constructions of defenses over time can actually be attacked and defended)
.Possibility for chapter members to go hertical/renegade (dependant upon the chapter laws you select and there stats)
.Customised recruitment methods
.Management of fleets
.management of vehicles
.have your chapter react to majot events in the universe (Badab War, age of apostasy, crusade of fire etc)
.make enemies within the imperium and outside of it (stuff like a inquisitor taking offence, rivals with other chapters, traitor forces swearing to destroy you)
.Management of geneseed etc
.(Possibility to have your chapter be a member of the Legions during the heresy and buld its history from there but not sure about this suggestion)

basically a game where you attempt to make your chapter survive through the ages and build its history to the turn of .M41 build a history and heroes

any ideas what you'd like to see in such a game is there a call for it?
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Re: Seeing if theres interest

Postby Midgard » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:15 pm

There is a Chapter Master simulator game out there that someone (I think at 4chan) actually programmed, and can be downloaded for free. As far as I know, it is not finished yet, but is definitely playable, and allows you to start with several pre-made or custom Chapters.

I am not entirely clear on one thing though - are you thinking a PC game, or tabletop/forum-based? My comments below will try to address the PC game aspect of it, as tabletop would be quite complex to accomplish right.

I like your take on this. I have always wanted a game where you can take over a Chapter from its founding and guide it through the ages, or to take over an existing Chapter at certain points in its life, and have a free-form, sandbox game from there. I hoped that when/if Dawn of War 3 is made, it would be this, but naturally it is very unlikely (as we will probably get some flavor-of-the-day RTS/RPG hybrid if we are lucky).

I think that for a game like this, it would be almost necessary to have a procedurally generated universe, perhaps with several predefined locations (i.e. famous sectors - think Badab, location of Terra, Ultramar, Armageddon, Eye of Terror, etc). The easiest solution, technically speaking, would be to limit the game universe to a specific sector, which can then be procedurally generated. The player may have some input to the sector parameters (i.e. homeworld development, society, density of systems, frequency of planet types, etc), and when the sector is seeded, it would have certain minimal requirements (i.e. at least one Forge World, at least one Agri-World, etc) which can be adjusted by a player. After all, the game would play very differently when you are defending a heavily industrialized sector versus when you are defending civilized planets with only an occasional high-value, high-importance Forge World that absolutely cannot fall to a random Waagh!

From there, the game would offer two paths. One, the procedurally generated path, would allow the player to dump a brand new Astartes Chapter into a procedurally generated sector, with the mission to protect that sector of space. The other path would, of course, have to do with specific scenarios - the sectors and the Chapters involved would be predetermined, and scenario duration and objective would probably be pre-set (i.e. Badab War, Thirteenth Black Crusade, Bucharis' invasion of Fenris, etc etc).

The real question about this kind of game is how much micromanagement you are willing to deal with. While a Chapter Master might be, theoretically, able to name every Marine under his command, he would probably relay most of his decrees and commands through interactions with maybe 20 or so people - Captains, Chief Librarian, Honor Guards, Master of the Forge, and perhaps a few others. This means that a Chapter Master would not be equipping each individual Tactical Squad or making tactical decisions about each single engagement, but he will appoint Captains from the list of available Sergeants (who might have their individual statistics), and, when it is time for succession, the player might be able to select a new Chapter Master from the list of available candidates (or, in another alternative scenario, the Chapter may operate under a succession law, not too far apart from Crusader Kings series - and if succession law produces a bad candidate, the Chapter itself may suffer).

Personally, I would be interested in seeing a Crusader Kings model of Chapter officer management. Each officer (Sergeant level and above) would have a set of statistics:

[*] Personal combat ability (influencing the officer's chances of surviving a combat engagement, and the additional damage he would do to enemy forces)
[*] Tactical acumen (a force multiplier of sorts influencing the officer's likelihood of successfully completing missions, and bearing direct impact on casualties taken)
[*] Administration (representing both administrative prowess, and general organizational skills - it would have a direct effect on the efficiency of the Chapter's manufactories and recruitment, and a smaller effect on efficiency of all combat due to superior logistical capabilities)
[*] Personality (representing the character's likeability - more likeable characters may have greater chance of successfully negotiating their way out of a tough situation with the Inquisition, or of having greater support within the Chapter; that can be a double-edged sword, since officers with high Personality but low loyalty may end up leading coups or going renegade)
[*] Loyalty (representing the character's belief in the Chapter Master's leadership - a disloyal character is not necessarily corrupted, but tends to dissent; this statistic may be impacted by Chapter successes, which will increase loyalty of all characters, or Chapter defeats, which will do the opposite; if a Chapter comes under Inquisitorial investigation, and any of its Captain-level officers have a low loyalty score, then the disloyal officer with highest Personality rating may attempt to supplant the Chapter Master)
[*] Accomplishment (representing the character's "track record", increased by victories and diminished by defeats; an officer with low Accomplishment will suffer a penalty in combat if elevated into a leadership position, while officers with high Accomplishment may grow disloyal or corrupted if they are passed over for promotion; a Captain or Chapter Master with low Accomplishment score will produce disloyalty in lower-ranking officers in their chain of command)
[*] Corruption (a hidden statistic that is increased by contact with the forces of Chaos, being passed over for promotion, military defeats, sitting idle without action for a long time, or operating away from the rest of the Chapter for extended periods of time; an officer with high Corruption rating may go renegade, or if a Chapter Master becomes corrupt, the Chapter will face a civil war, and if the loyalists lose, the Chapter goes renegade)
[*] Psychic power (should only be present with Librarians; a non-Librarian character with non-zero Psychic power must either be inducted into a Librarius through player decision, or will have large penalties to Corruption, representing the risk of becoming a vessel for the Ruinous Powers; the downside to inducting every potentially psychic Sergeant into Librarius is that the Librarius can only accommodate so many trained psychics before they start to accumulate Corruption, or before the psychic abilities of the Librarius are severely diluted due to low-quality recruits)

In addition, there can be a number of separate abilities, which may impact these statistics. For example, "Iron Will" ability (name just made up) may make a character extremely resistant to the corrupting touch of xenos and heretics, and lessen or even reverse corruption. "Ambitious" ability may increase the rate at which the character's Accomplishment score increases with victories, but may also make him more prone to corruption from negative effects, and may make him suffer greater drop in loyalty when it is diminished.

The above statistics may also work differently in different specialists. A Chaplain would reduce or even reverse Corruption increases in any forces he is attached to, with his effectiveness based on his Personality (i.e. he has to be charismatic to do his job well). A Librarian would be the only character who should have high Psychic potential. A Techmarine will have more “neutral” Accomplishment statistic, and may not get bonuses or penalties from it (after all, he answers in part to a different master).

Another idea is to give the player an ability to promote as many Captains as he chooses to, and to treat individual Marines as a resource, not as characters. The game may allow the player to create new Sergeant-level characters using mechanic similar to Total War series – once the ratio of Sergeants to Marines falls below a certain limit (possibly set by Chapter law, i.e. 1:9 in a Codex Chapter, where theoretically, there should be one Sergeant per 9 Marines, but it may be set considerably higher or lower if the Chapter decides to deviate from the Codex), the game will present a candidate for promotion to the Chapter Master (or may even automatically create a character in a company where spots are available). The new Sergeant candidates may have statistics influenced by their commanding officer, who presumably puts them up – so high Loyalty, high Personality Captain will probably put someone similar for promotion, but low Loyalty Captain may put up a candidate with low Loyalty and low Personality, a “yes-man” likely to support him instead of the best candidate for the Chapter.

The recruitment of new Marines will be decided by the Chapter Master, and will require an assignment of at least one Chaplain, one Librarian, and one Apothecary to a suitable recruitment world. Each type of a recruitment world may provide bonuses and penalties to overall Chapter, perhaps by adding or subtracting a number from its pool of statistic-based points, and therefore increasing a chance that newly created characters will favor those statistics. For example, let’s say that the Chapter recruits from a Feral world (bonus to Personal combat, penalty to Administration). If the Chapter decides to recruit from a Civilized world (penalty to Personal combat, bonus to Tactical Acumen, bonus to Administration), the calculation would determine proportion of recruits from both planets among the Chapter’s Marines, and would assign a chance of appropriate bonuses/penalties. Let’s say that 70% of the Chapter’s recruits come from a Feral world, and 30% come from a Civilized world. The calculation would produce a 70% chance that any new character will have a Feral world bonus, and 30% chance that such character will have a Civilized world bonus, modified by any Chapter traits, Chapter laws, and random number generator to determine the overall degree of bonus.

The Chapter gene-seed should probably be handled as a calculation mechanic working in two ways. For characters, it will provide bonuses and penalties to their individual statistics (i.e. Ultramarine gene-seed will probably be a good baseline, no bonuses and no penalties). For rank-and-file Marines, it would present a bonus or a penalty to their overall combat effectiveness, whether it is their attacks, hit points, or some other statistic. Certain other types of gene-seed may provide bonuses (i.e. close combat acumen), but would also have drawbacks, and would also provide modifier to corruption (through mutation, etc), not to mention that a Chapter with questionable gene-seed may find itself at odds with the Inquisition.

I probably should stop now, or I will spend way too much of my day at work doing this… :o Is this the kind of thing you were looking for?
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Re: Seeing if theres interest

Postby BadabTyrant » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:05 pm

yes thats the kind of things we were looking at.

we understand that yes naming and managing 1000+ characters would get VERY complex.

as for geneseed one of us came up with an idea where we also stted what happens when you encounter renegades eg (congratulation Chapter Master the campign for [insert planet] has concluded 5th company reports losses of [X number of marines the players actioned killed/calculation killed] but they have defeatedd and destroyed a renegade force ) either the captains have automatic decisions or can be managed even asking for orders such as:
"Many of these renegades show fe signs of corruption captain what do you wish us to do with them?"
a. burn the bodies melt the armour leave nothing for them
b. scavenge what you can we will return in glory (ill equipped drawbck)
c. those who show no corrupton harvest the geneseed they shall serve our chapter in penance (chance of introducing traitor geneseed)
d. Take everything and leave their bodies for the carrion eaters

yes we were thinking of it being a pc game with a procedurly generated galaxy as well as scenarios to playthrough like the badab war.

any ideas for like fleet or vehicle pool management?

our ideas about defending the fortress monastery would depend on a few thing (fleet space or homeworld based, atmosphere of homeworld etc) with the ability to build your monastery up with defences etc or relie on secrecy to keep it hidden.

As well as introducing enemies as and when they appeared in the galaxy if sticking to a timeline mode so it might be you have a great homeworld but suddeny discover its a tombworld or your in the path of a hive fleet or the world engine, maybe even isolated for a few turns or attempt to esape with no idea when you might return to the imperium (skip a few turns or even go back a large number of turns)

about succesion we were thinking either giving th eplayer to pick and choose or attempt to overide descsions, basically you could set a load of "tennents" such as the chapter master being selected by commity of chapter officals or through divination (hilarious possibility for a scout to suddenly become chapter master) or new officers selected through trial by combat. or yu set precident as you encounter situations.

as for combat a major factor could be again the tennets you selected examples.

"Show no Fear" your chapter rarely backs down from a challenge, as such you have massive penaltiesfor refusing to help a call for aid or leave a campaign that has drastically depleted their forces

"Crusader Host" the chapter weilds pistol and chainsword making them excellent close combat fighters bur poor marksmen at range

also wondeing how to deal with chapter to chapter politics

our idea for artifacts/armours was the missions the chapter undertakes, basically when a space marine goes down theres a chance his armour can be destroyed/damaged (increasing the time he takes to et back to frontline service as well as recruitment time for a scout to fill a company roll) as well as a chance for him to be severly injured susan coma, so badly hurt it ill take a dreadnought to save him or dead or dead with geneseed destroyed/damaged.

basically if the marine does a great deed the item could become either a grand relic or gain a history (history can be passed down from marine to mean, relic can be left with the weilder or locked in the armoury for veteran use)
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