General Whf Lore Q&A

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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby SIngemeister » Thu May 02, 2013 3:30 am

Athelassan wrote:
SIngemeister wrote:Speaking of Sigmar, do we know what happened to the Sisters of Sigmar post-Mordheim?

Not that particular sect, no, although there are plenty of other Sigmarite nunneries around and "Sisters of Sigmar" with a similar style and iconography will still be a thing in the current setting. If I remember rightly, the Sisters in Mordheim had developed some sort of heretical belief to do with the comet and wyrdstone? If they managed to survive there until 300 years later, the chances are that Magnus rubbed them out when he razed the city and started altering the history books.

Ath

I think they were trying to steal all the wyrdstone and hide it away from people who could be corrupted by it. There's an obvious problem here.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Fri May 10, 2013 12:14 am

As always Ath your replies are a pleasure to read thanks for answering :D now onto something else hope this is the right location as it involves a author:

Anyone know what Mike Lee is up to these days? like the mans style and want more from him to be blunt think he'd do well with Empire or hell the early history of the Dark Elves such a vast amount of untapped stories in the DE army book.
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Athelassan » Fri May 17, 2013 2:40 am

sam vimes wrote:Anyone know what Mike Lee is up to these days? like the mans style and want more from him to be blunt think he'd do well with Empire or hell the early history of the Dark Elves such a vast amount of untapped stories in the DE army book.

I haven't heard any particular news of Mike Lee, although there have been rumblings about a new Darkblade series, but that won't necessarily involve him. He's been a bit quiet for a while. The Calendar thread in P&D or the Ask the Authors board might be more productive venues for enquiry; I don't really have enough information to help.

While I enjoy Mr Lee's stories, though, he can play a bit fast and loose with the background and setting for my liking, and that's the case in both Nagash and Darkblade. To be blunt myself, if he's going to be writing more, I'd rather he wrote either about areas where he can do relatively little "damage" to the background (i.e. low level stuff with no impact or real reference to named background characters or the setting as a whole) or that the editors really run the rule over it to make sure it conforms.

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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Fri May 17, 2013 7:19 pm

Athelassan wrote:
sam vimes wrote:Anyone know what Mike Lee is up to these days? like the mans style and want more from him to be blunt think he'd do well with Empire or hell the early history of the Dark Elves such a vast amount of untapped stories in the DE army book.

I haven't heard any particular news of Mike Lee, although there have been rumblings about a new Darkblade series, but that won't necessarily involve him. He's been a bit quiet for a while. The Calendar thread in P&D or the Ask the Authors board might be more productive venues for enquiry; I don't really have enough information to help.

While I enjoy Mr Lee's stories, though, he can play a bit fast and loose with the background and setting for my liking, and that's the case in both Nagash and Darkblade. To be blunt myself, if he's going to be writing more, I'd rather he wrote either about areas where he can do relatively little "damage" to the background (i.e. low level stuff with no impact or real reference to named background characters or the setting as a whole) or that the editors really run the rule over it to make sure it conforms.

Ath


Fair points Ath but as long he doesn't become C.S Goto or Khaine and the Dark Mother save us Matt frickin Ward I'll take his fast loose approach with a pinch of salt and a open mind lol btw mate/love (dont know if your male or female) you really should be a lore checker for BL books fantasy especialy it seems always got good answers that are a good read and are accurate as all hell to boot :D
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:29 pm

Ok so I'm depending on Ath to come to the rescue here my house mate is wanting to get back into fantasy but doesn't like high elf light colours anyone know the old loyalist nagarythe colours he prefers dark schemes
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Athelassan » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:48 pm

sam vimes wrote:Ok so I'm depending on Ath to come to the rescue here my house mate is wanting to get back into fantasy but doesn't like high elf light colours anyone know the old loyalist nagarythe colours he prefers dark schemes

I gather there's a new Uniforms and Heraldry book out for High Elves which go into more detail than ever about the colour schemes for individual kingdoms. I haven't read it, but it sounds like it might be of interest to him.

According to Malekith the colours of Nagarythe were black and purple and/or silver. I can't remember what the Anars wore, but probably something similar.

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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:16 am

Ath thank you I'll let him know tomorrow about the colour scheme and the book :D
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:58 am

I've been thinking how could the dagger of Torxus at the end of Darkblade affect Tz'arkan to such an extent? I know that a daemon is a collection of souls that have merged together and become one personality and that the power of the dagger is to kill the body and bind the soul to the spot were the host body was, could the dagger actually be a threat to even a greater daemon?
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
[CENTER]Image[/CENTER]
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Blinded » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:09 pm

sam vimes wrote:I've been thinking how could the dagger of Torxus at the end of Darkblade affect Tz'arkan to such an extent? I know that a daemon is a collection of souls that have merged together and become one personality and that the power of the dagger is to kill the body and bind the soul to the spot were the host body was, could the dagger actually be a threat to even a greater daemon?


Nah. Its power only applies to the Living (who are not appropriately protected). Undead, Daemons of any kind and in general those who have no souls are immune to its effects.
Worm and W40K are both dieing worlds, but while Worm is barely managing to avoid getting swallowed up, 40K is trying to stab Death in the eye with a chainsaw. - .IronSun.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:12 pm

Blinded wrote:
sam vimes wrote:I've been thinking how could the dagger of Torxus at the end of Darkblade affect Tz'arkan to such an extent? I know that a daemon is a collection of souls that have merged together and become one personality and that the power of the dagger is to kill the body and bind the soul to the spot were the host body was, could the dagger actually be a threat to even a greater daemon?


Nah. Its power only applies to the Living (who are not appropriately protected). Undead, Daemons of any kind and in general those who have no souls are immune to its effects.

But magical weapons in general affect undead and daemons to some extent, and well even Tz'arkan said that dagger was cruel compared to him
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
[CENTER]Image[/CENTER]
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Blinded » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:58 pm

sam vimes wrote:But magical weapons in general affect undead and daemons to some extent, and well even Tz'arkan said that dagger was cruel compared to him


It is indeed cruel as it would condemn the victim to an eternity of torment where as a Daemon would end its victims' suffering when he gets bored by devouring them. Compared to weight of an eternity of damnation what the Daemon can dish is merciful indeed. Of course the Daemon could have lied... never trust words of the Daemonic!!

Also this dagger specifically tears soul of mortals out of their body. Against someone without a soul, like Malus Darkblade himself (who was also soulless when he was first stabbed by the blade), the dagger is no more magical than a sword enchanted to give away a faint light.

Considering Daemons are soulless and Undead are bound to their husks by very different laws than the Living I seriously doubt that the Dagger would be anything more than a surprisingly sharp piece of metal.
Worm and W40K are both dieing worlds, but while Worm is barely managing to avoid getting swallowed up, 40K is trying to stab Death in the eye with a chainsaw. - .IronSun.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:43 pm

Given what the dagger was doing to Tz'arkan at the end of Darkblade trust me it is no mere piece of sharp metal and interestingly when Malus is stabbed by the reaper of souls Tz'arkan says the dagger took every bit of life/soul from him that wasn't already his.
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Blinded » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:42 pm

sam vimes wrote:Given what the dagger was doing to Tz'arkan at the end of Darkblade trust me it is no mere piece of sharp metal and interestingly when Malus is stabbed by the reaper of souls Tz'arkan says the dagger took every bit of life/soul from him that wasn't already his.


Couldn't have said it better myself. "every bit of life/soul". But it can't take that which one does not possess . And Daemons while sentient are neither alive nor have souls.

So what will a dagger that steals life and souls would take from that which has none of those? Answer would be Nothing.
Worm and W40K are both dieing worlds, but while Worm is barely managing to avoid getting swallowed up, 40K is trying to stab Death in the eye with a chainsaw. - .IronSun.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:49 pm

No think about it if a daemon is a collection of souls that have come together and gain access to the material world with or without a host body they are to some extent no longer bound by the 'rules' such as they are of the realms of chaos, they are bound by the mortal realms rules which are many, up is up down is down so on and so forth my theory is this and this is spoiled given it reveals the ending of the first part of the Darkblade saga and other events:

Spoiler: In the temple of Tz'arkan which despite being in the chaos wastes is still far enough from the chaos gates that daemons can't just come and go as they as they please, tribesman and beast men wander freely, is in the mortal realm so any big nasty from the realm needs either a lot of magic in the air or a host body to anchor them or give them something to 'live' off.

As Darkblade completes the ritual that frees Tz'arkan from his crystal prison to his complete lack of surprise Tz'arkan emerges from him as at the end chapters of the first novel Tz'arkan says to Darkblade after putting on ring that curses the wearer to having Tz'arkan share your body "I have hollowed out your essence like a gourd so I can fit the merest sliver of my essence in to your frame" so now we have in effect almost the fantasy version of Argel Tarl knocking around only this possession kills after a year such is Tz'arkan's thirst or the curse is just that nasty.

So Darkblade is a bridge for Tz'arkan into the mortal realm which has rules and Tz'arkan follows them he takes on a humanoid figure which I doubt was his true form tbh then as I honestly didn't expect amazingly lol Tz'arkan like a used car salesmen tries to kill him as he promised to never enslave him again. didn't say a thing about killing him now did he? a nasty battle ensues with the prize being Malus's soul Tz'arkan gets battered by the warpsword of Khaine, he puts some bolts of pure darkness through Malus but just as he's about to give Darkblade a blow he can't survive Malus turns gives a snappy one liner "Here's a token of my esteem as well" throws the dagger of torxus at him and near as I can interpret the dagger starts to 'kill' Tz'arkan such as it can was it binding parts of his essence to the temple i.e the souls that make Tz'arkan what he is? Unraveling his souls he's made up from same way a loose thread can unravel a jumper, and normal weapons can effect daemons take a look at know no fear and the ultramarines captain observation on old fashioned weapons affecting daemons better than bolters.



Well hope this adds more fuel to what is turning into a good debate and Ath whats your take on this or indeed any other boltholers?
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Blinded » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:52 am

Well... not really. Daemons are manifested stuff of the warp and their relation to souls is that they tear them apart and make them part of their essence (in short "devour" them), which I'm sure you already know. I think how a new Daemon (Undivided or otherwise) is created deserves its own conversation (right choice of word?) though.

The difference between our views is that you consider "Daemon Essence" and "Mortal Soul" to be of the same nature. Think of it as cow eating grass (both being organic) without being or becoming a plant itself, or being directly affected by majority of plant-related plagues (as far as I know anyways... not keen on biology stuff... and not counting metabolic diseases, food poisoning caused by diseases and... which are indirect, byproduct result of grass-diseases).

Also time and again in various background materials Daemons were declared "Soulless", and yes, that includes Daemon Princes like "Tz'arkan" too.

The said dagger does not seem to have power of Banishment to affect this essence even if it is within a host or manifested in the material realm.
Worm and W40K are both dieing worlds, but while Worm is barely managing to avoid getting swallowed up, 40K is trying to stab Death in the eye with a chainsaw. - .IronSun.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Athelassan » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:26 am

Yeah, I think it's possibly a mistake to think of daemons as akin to souls. Souls are the aethyric projection of a mortal being, which exist in the same space as daemons, but daemons are creatures of the aethyr which occasionally project a physical form. It's difficult to come up with a decent analogy, since I can't think of anything in reality which is really comparable, but Blinded is along the right lines with his cows/grass idea. Perhaps... you can use a strimmer (the dagger) to cut back and disperse grass (souls) but doing the same against a cow (a daemon) won't get you very far. Hmm.

I think that perhaps the special qualities of the dagger relating to souls might just be a red herring in this case. The dagger is magical, and we know that daemons are most vulnerable to objects with magical properties. In cow/grass terms, the strimmer function might not bother the cow that much, but the strimmer itself might still be an effective weapon to bludgeon the cow about the head. It's not so much what the properties of the dagger are so much as that it's a magic dagger at all. However, the dagger does already have a connection to T'zarkan, so it might trouble him more than a common or garden magic dagger irrespective of whether it has other functions.

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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:12 am

Wow thanks for a good debate and good points made by both of you :) although the whole connection thing is quite a cool idea as in vampire slayer Max a gold wizard is debating with a woman about belief systems and how belief/connection to something may or may not affect spells cast against it, which I thought was a pretty good thing of Bill King to put in opens up some more areas for wizards.
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Blinded » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:55 am

Considering similar to their W40K counterparts Orcs and Goblins of WHF are fungi based life forms, does Lore of Life have any special effect on them? After all it's the lore related to plants and they ARE animal-plant hybrids.

I was thinking of something similar between the Undead and lore of Death. After all are generally better equipped when dealing with Undead (or so the lore suggests).
Worm and W40K are both dieing worlds, but while Worm is barely managing to avoid getting swallowed up, 40K is trying to stab Death in the eye with a chainsaw. - .IronSun.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Xisor » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:57 pm

Blinded wrote:Considering similar to their W40K counterparts Orcs and Goblins of WHF are fungi based life forms, does Lore of Life have any special effect on them? After all it's the lore related to plants and they ARE animal-plant hybrids.
A fungus isn't a plant. (Bear with me, fungi are pretty cool.)

Straight out of Wikipedia: "These organisms are classified as a kingdom, Fungi, which is separate from plants, animals, protists and bacteria."
-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungus


It's still an interesting enough question, but I'd be inclined to say 'no' at the big, easy-rules level, as, fundamentally, humans are both alive and beasts too and that has no special effect from the lore of life or the lore of beasts. Especially you, you lively beast! ;)

(On a more practical, detailed level, I'd also imagine that those lores get much further with 'overlapping to humans and elves and orcs'. Perhaps not as potent as with 'lush, rich garden life' or ravening beasts, but nevertheless, there'd still be some applications of the lore valid to humanoids in both cases. Much more, say, than the lore of fire would be good at manipulating stones or the lore of heavens good at shaping trees...)

Blinded wrote:I was thinking of something similar between the Undead and lore of Death. After all are generally better equipped when dealing with Undead (or so the lore suggests).
The Undead are a violation of the Lore of Death, an abomination.
"When my housemate puts his bike in the middle of the living room floor, I find that inordinately jarring, annoying and rude, but for me to refer to it as "genocide" would be incorrect." -Ath
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Blinded » Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:38 pm

- Yeah. But considering the proto-Jade Wizard was Radagast the Brown and in his latest depiction he was a mushroom-guy kind of person, I decided to ignore scientific facts of it.

- I see.

- Undead are indeed abomination to the ideals of Purple Collages of Magic, which is why the Magisters of that collage (what was their name again?) make a point of hunting down Necromancers and Undead creatures wherever and whenever they can.

The Tabletop rules of lore of Death are for all armies (including Tomb Kings, Vampire Lords and Warriors of Chaos) and I do believe for gaming balance reasons it does not cover the Anti-Undead specialization of members of Purple College.
Worm and W40K are both dieing worlds, but while Worm is barely managing to avoid getting swallowed up, 40K is trying to stab Death in the eye with a chainsaw. - .IronSun.
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