General 40K Lore Q&A

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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:02 pm

Eroldren wrote:And here I am just thinking about to request one 'General Lore 40K Q&A' for the Mods yesterdays. What about a 'General WHF Lore Q&A' sticky too go along hmm?

Any woo I got couple space marines questions: 1) How high up does a Assault Marine (not Chaos Raptors, they got their warp pals to aid them etcetera) usually rises? Bit difficulty for me when trying to judge a good figure for them either from DOW2 or Space Marines. 2) Anybody knows/Is power armour info, particularly about full details and capabilities of a space maine helm/visual display?



Feel free to start your own thread :)

1. I have no idea really. I would say it is up to you to define that as long as your guesstimate isnt too out there.

2. I think Bolter and Chainsword has some articles regarding this. Should check that. Other than that, don't really know, except the usual things covered in the novels. You might also want to check Ultramarines the movie. It has a few scenes through the helmet of a Space Marine.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Dae » Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:26 pm

It's the first time I'm seeing someone recommend others to check the Ultramarines movie :lol:

The Dark crusade intro is from inside a Marine's helmet, but it's kinda underwhelming. You'd expect the HUD to give a lot more information and all, though at one point it does pinpoint all threats.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby schaferwhat‽ » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:46 pm

Raziel4707 wrote:Well, serfs are generally bound to one place, master, bit of land or whatever and essentially pay their keep through labour. There's wiggle room, but a serf is just an indentured menial and sometimes a nicer way of saying slave.


I always figured in the Space Marine sense the Serf ws bound to "the chapter" the chapter having the rights of ownership akin to a person much in the same way as some organisations and businesses have the legal rights of people now. Essentially they are slaves, they are people who belong to the chapter, many a space marine may not even see any difference truly between a living serf and a servitor other than perhaps the standard to which they perform the duties asked of them.

Dreadnought wise, I don't think being bound into a sacophogous is that nice a thing to happen also the marines tend to be near death when bounded so it is likely a set of "its easier to keep them alive indefinitely if we switch them onto standby mode" presumably the sus-an membrane would help this but considering the variant traumas that leave one suitable for becoming a dreadnought pilot I'd imagine there'd be a mechanical/medicinal set up to put them to sleep. Thus IF marines wouldn't stay awake all the time as a dreadnought (IFs can sleep normally after all) to do so would drive them insaner than being a dozer does already.

The Assualt Marine jump question is likely one that can't be specified for the traditional cop out "it depends", how fast does the marine want to go, how much extra equipment are they travelling, how long does the marine expect to be deployed in the field, how often and how far will they be expecting to jump in that time. Fuel isn't so much of an issue because presumably it is linked to the nuclear power device of the armour as a whole, however arguing that the jump pack device itself is unlikely to have a higher power threshold than normal power armour (from the purely unscientific speculative considerations of how big a jump pack is compared to a normal pack compared to say a power pack with significantly higher power output for a devestator for example) then jumping very high is likely to put a stress on other systems (such as vox or hud display) momentary black outs or what not which need considering.

Power Armour is a mess, there are multiple marks in use, these are further altered by chapter/legion/mechanicus subsect variations in maintanence and use of the things (Raven Guard likely to have calibrated different options on display than say the Space Wolves who largely forego Helmets and may not have invested much time into them). I'd also state that no one wants a space marine to be distracted by too much data and thus "underwhelming" HUD displays may just be because the marine hasn't opted to activate the "windspeed/direction app" on his helms OS.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Green River » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:29 am

On the 'chapter serfs' question, the best answer is simply to use the term for 'slave' in the real world culture upon which the chaper is based (such as 'thralls' for the norse types, 'helots' for the spartan inspired, &c.); alternatively, if you want a less slavey feel, use the word for manservant (like huscarl, bondsman).
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Raziel4707 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:19 am

schaferwhat‽ wrote:
Raziel4707 wrote:Well, serfs are generally bound to one place, master, bit of land or whatever and essentially pay their keep through labour. There's wiggle room, but a serf is just an indentured menial and sometimes a nicer way of saying slave.


I always figured in the Space Marine sense the Serf ws bound to "the chapter" the chapter having the rights of ownership akin to a person much in the same way as some organisations and businesses have the legal rights of people now. Essentially they are slaves, they are people who belong to the chapter, many a space marine may not even see any difference truly between a living serf and a servitor other than perhaps the standard to which they perform the duties asked of them.



Oh absolutely, that's definitely how I see them in general, only with a certain degree of reverence and willing servitude given who their masters actually are. In a crappy universe where you know that there is only war, where Abbaddon the Half-Cocked keeps invading and messing up the azaleas and where daemons lurk behind every lamp post, you have little choice but to be someone's bitch servant. Given the choice (if you're even ridiculously lucky enough to have one) between bitchdome servitude in a factory where they'll simply boot your carcass to one side when you're dead, millitary service where you will almost definitely end up dead or doing absolutely anything in a fortress monastery, strike cruiser, heavily armoured space gazebo, I'd definitely go for serfdom. I'd be safer cleaning Calgar's toilet and polishing his helmet than practically anywhere else in the galaxy.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Vivia » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:01 pm

About Dreadnoughts, Lexicanum doesn't give much explanation (hm).

In stories the Dreadnoughts are usually depicted as a little less than coherent, the one in Dark Apostle comes to mind.
It's never fully explained, only that they have lived for centuries inside a box. Sometimes I get the impression Imperial techs don't understand the technology of the Dreadnoughts and it's explain by saying that they're very old.
Shouldn't the technology be sufficient to maintain the DN sanity if they're kept alive for such long time?
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Liliedhe » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:15 pm

There are also perfectly lucid Dreadnoughts (the Techmarine in the Ultramarines series, the Iron Father in the Iron Hands novel, the former Chapter Master in Brotherhood of the Snake [who has an awesome sense of humour], several Dreads in the HH books, etc). It might have to do with whether they wanted to be interred or not, with how traumatic it was, and probably with their affinity to technology...

For the stasis, I doubt this has anything to do with their implants, this seems to be the stasis that stops time. (What Guilliman is in, or what they use on Horus in False Gods) Only the Space Wolves seem to be an exception there.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Vivia » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:02 pm

It sounds right about the trauma and reluctance and we don't really know how damage they're inside the box.

Perhaps it's the Chaos Marines DN that I remember and they're way old, the one in Dark Apostle is from the time of the HH and he thought he was still fighting alongside the Warmaster, it was oddly touching. I think there was one In Storm of Iron and in the Space Wolves novels they thought the Dreadnoughts were senile.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:52 am

Vivia wrote:It sounds right about the trauma and reluctance and we don't really know how damage they're inside the box.

Perhaps it's the Chaos Marines DN that I remember and they're way old, the one in Dark Apostle is from the time of the HH and he thought he was still fighting alongside the Warmaster, it was oddly touching. I think there was one In Storm of Iron and in the Space Wolves novels they thought the Dreadnoughts were senile.


Don't remember one in Storm of Iron but there was definitely a DN Warsmith in Dead Sky, Black Sun. He skirted the line between sanity and insanity IIRC.

There is a DN in Dan Abnett's Black Templar Boom comics. This guy took down a whole bunch of Noise Marines by himself and he was pretty much a hair's breadth from dying before he was interred on account of his bravery and conduct. He has always been mostly loony.

I second Lil's description of the Iron Snakes Dreadnought. That guy is cool :D
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Liliedhe » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:43 am

The Warsmith in DSBS was quite sane - I mean, his mental... irregularities had more to do with being a Chaos Marine than with his Dreadnought-status.

Given the difference between HH Dreadnoughts and 'modern' ones I'd also say that maybe the technology that keeps them alive has degraded, or the ability to perfectly integrate the Marine's body with it.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Jelboy » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:11 am

Reading Atlas infernal has left me with a few questions:

1) Eye of Terror. I know the eye of terror is variable in many things (generally becoming more unreal as you near its center); but, I always assumed it was a desperate dangerous place full of daemon princes and heretical space marines and largely un-mappable. In Atlas Infernal we have a rogue trader that regularly goes to the eye to trade and visit all manner of planets which are dangerous, yes, but not quite the hell-holes I imagined. Is there a lot of illicit Imperial movement that can easily slip between sporadic islands of Chaos Marine Territory in the Eye, and are there a lot of planets on the edge of the eye that are like wild but neutral trading posts?

2) Techmarines. Are techmarines particularly good warriors, or did the author commit the sin of just having their particular protagonist able to hold off grey knights for a sizable period of time, able to quite easily defeat a veteran chaos marine, etc?

3) The rogue trader vessel seemed to use its Geller field, sub-warp travel, in the eye. Does this mean that Daemons can pop into the semi-unreal space within the eye? If so, then why didn't these daemons also pop into existence on the various planets the protagonists visited sans Geller field?

4) The protagonists appeared to travel into the webway on foot without masks. Is the webway full of breathable air?

5) A NULL artifact was used for incredible effect against a major daemon. Why aren't such artifacts used more routinely against chaos?
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Maugan Ra » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:34 pm

There may be a few spoilers as I answer those questions.

1) Well, the outer reaches of the Eye are more "corrupted" reality than a complete lack of it. Physics and sanity still hold some sway there, just less than elsewhere in the galaxy. That particular Trader was going into the eye under the guidance and direction of an experienced Inquisitor, who had a bound daemonhost as a guide, and it was still noted as being rather dangerous.

2) That particular Techmarine was a veteran of the Relictors chapter, who have had a long history of fighting with the Grey Knights. He'd also been operating solo in renegade space for a significant amount of time, studying and wielding the power of the warp in battle, so it's not unreasonable to assume that he'd be a significantly skilled warrior. And even so, he got pretty badly beaten up.

3) A Gellar field protects against more than just daemonic manifestation. The Eye is a dangerous place, where the fabric of spacetime might just decide to bend at any moment and shear your entire ship in half, so keeping the Gellar field up is very helpful there.

4) I'd say yes, or at least it can be made so. It was designed as a method of safe and rapid travel, why would the interior be hostile to humans or, indeed, Eldar?

5) Because they are so absolutely, ludicrously rare.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby groovysl » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:45 pm

To reinforce Maugan's comment on 5, the artefact in question is the antithesis of [avoid spoiler], quick memory check gets me 4 of those with the final qualifier. Given that, the relic of the possibly even rarer opposite isn't something you'd see every day, or even every millennium.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby LordLucan » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:31 pm

Psykers occur let's say once for every million humans. Nulls occur perhaps once for every million psykers. Pariahs once in every billion psykers. Black pariahs are even rarer

Spoiler: (I've only ever read about one of them)

. Null-negative pariahs...

Spoiler: Well, we have seen ONE in the entirety of 40K background lore, in the novel Atlas infernal. That is how rare they are. This creature was only a foetus, but still caused even non-psykers physical pain to be around. Such a creature could never survive to maturity, because even its own parents would utterly hate it and crave its destruction as soon as possible. Even the Inquisition didn't know what to do with the foetus, and locked it away.

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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Xisor » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:53 pm

LordLucan wrote:Psykers occur let's say once for every million humans. Nulls occur perhaps once for every million psykers. Pariahs once in every billion psykers. Black pariahs are even rarer

Spoiler: (I've only ever read about one of them)

. Null-negative pariahs...

Spoiler: Well, we have seen ONE in the entirety of 40K background lore, in the novel Atlas infernal. That is how rare they are. This creature was only a foetus, but still caused even non-psykers physical pain to be around. Such a creature could never survive to maturity, because even its own parents would utterly hate it and crave its destruction as soon as possible. Even the Inquisition didn't know what to do with the foetus, and locked it away.



Moreover...

Spoiler: The Atlas itself is not 'just' a normal pariah. I.e. I don't think it's deadly for an Eldar to stand next to Wystan Frauka. (Well, it might be, if they knew what he'd been reading lately.) It'd certainly be discomforting. The nature/existence of the Atlas is exploiting some aspect of the pariah, perhaps in an 'up to 11' style [but differently to 'pop the foetus in a jar'], hence the books more focussed/potent effects.

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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Jelboy » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:04 pm

Eldar Farseers look into the future - could their abilities be due to Tzeentch playing games? Maybe preventing Slaanesh ever truly succeeding in its hunt for the Eldar. Looking into the future seems to be a Tzeentch sort of thing.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby LordLucan » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:20 pm

Tzeentch is involved in every plan and scheme and vision of the future. However, he is also the essense of making plans. he has a billion billion schemes going on at once, each contradicting each other. Tzeentch is a god of chaos and change, and he doesn't care what his schemes will result in, as long as there is change. Keeping the Eldar as they are, stagnant for millennia, doesn't seem his style.

Also, it isn't like he gets their souls any more thna slannesh does. the Soulstones keep them from the Primordial annihilator.

Tzeentch and his minions don't influence farseers imo. if they did, why is Ahriman finding it so very difficult to enter the Black Library?

The problem with tzeentch is, you could say he is behind everything in 40K, but no one could ever prove it. He's a convenient scapegoat for many plans taht seem to have a purpose, but are actually random.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Atlantic » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:44 pm

The Eldar might precede Tzeentch. Tzeentch might be the result of all of the old ones / Eldar playing games with the future.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Gaius Marius » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:10 am

On the dreadnaught thing, it seems to be this combination of age of the dreadnaught and how badly injured the dread was going into the can. The near complete sensory deprivation of the can (no touch, no feeling whatsoever except for ghost feelings from their real bodies) steadily erodes sanity as the dreadnaught is awake (probably why the loyalists keep their's asleep most of the time) and the starting level of that sanity varies on the injury that put the marine in the coffin (its possibly O2 deprivation influences this). How long a dreadnaught can really last is a question, Bjornn the Fell-handed seemed fine in Battle for the Fang, but then he hadn't been in the casket that long compared to 'modern' 40K. Maybe we can get a 4th part of the Space wolves/Thousand sons series to check up on it.

Its mentioned that many Iron Hand's captains are or have been dreadnaughts and the Tech-Marine in Ultramarines, soldiers whose responsibilities would preclude long hibernations. Its possible that Marines who already had sacrified large portions of their bodies to machines would not suffer the sensory withdrawl and subsequent insanity of the 'non tech marine' Astartes.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Atlantic » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:34 am

There are probably a whole host of other factors that are involved with how sane a dreadnaught is as well.

Ultimately it is probably like anything in life. Different individuals respond differently to different things. Some marines might adjust well while others do not.
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