New BL Artwork

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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby revelation » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:36 pm

I think it's pretty cool too Pyro. :)

Btw, do authors get any input at all as far as who gets to do their art or what the art should cover (specific event in the book/story for example). Can authors reject art?
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby Pyroriffic » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:03 pm

With 'Portents', I was asked what I might like for the cover, but I didn't know what it would be until it was released. With 'Gildar Rift', I exchanged emails with Jon Sullivan over the tiniest of details. I guess it varies!
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby Lord of the Night » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:09 pm

Pyroriffic wrote:With 'Portents', I was asked what I might like for the cover, but I didn't know what it would be until it was released. With 'Gildar Rift', I exchanged emails with Jon Sullivan over the tiniest of details. I guess it varies!

Maybe because the cover of an eBook isn't as important as the cover for a physical copy.


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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby David Earle » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:46 pm

Pish, posh. Browse the 99 cent section of Amazon and see if eBook covers don't make a difference. :P
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby Xisor » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:18 pm

Lord of the Night wrote:
Pyroriffic wrote:With 'Portents', I was asked what I might like for the cover, but I didn't know what it would be until it was released. With 'Gildar Rift', I exchanged emails with Jon Sullivan over the tiniest of details. I guess it varies!

Maybe because the cover of an eBook isn't as important as the cover for a physical copy.


You shouldn't judge a cover by its book.
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby Lord of the Night » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:22 pm

Xisor wrote:
Lord of the Night wrote:
Pyroriffic wrote:With 'Portents', I was asked what I might like for the cover, but I didn't know what it would be until it was released. With 'Gildar Rift', I exchanged emails with Jon Sullivan over the tiniest of details. I guess it varies!

Maybe because the cover of an eBook isn't as important as the cover for a physical copy.


You shouldn't judge a cover by its book.

Of course not, but the cover often forms the first impression of the book. And first impressions are important.


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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:33 pm

revelation wrote:I think it's pretty cool too Pyro. :)

Btw, do authors get any input at all as far as who gets to do their art or what the art should cover (specific event in the book/story for example). Can authors reject art?


Authors almost never have that kind of authority over cover art, unless they themselves solicit it. And usually all publishing houses have art directors to handle that kind of thing, with authors being rarely involved. There've been a few cases of authors involved with the cover art, but IIRC that has almost always been the case when Jon Sullivan is on the covers. Don't recall Neil or Hardy or Cheoljoo or Winona getting author feedback. But then again, we almost never hear about any of that, so grain of salt and all.
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby Phoebus » Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:39 pm

revelation wrote:Saying that you think something is better or worse based solely on your like or dislike of a certain "style" is imo a mistake. You may not normally be into a certain style of music for instance, but I doubt you'd then say that all songs representing that style are terrible or worse than all other songs of another genre that you happen to gravitate to.

Of course not. But I'm not talking about all cartoons or all comic books; I'm referring to a specific range of covers that were commissioned for Black Library novels and audio releases.

Will Lee and Fowler's art get better? I'd say that's a safe bet. Compare the cover of Descent of Angels, for instance, with the last few covers of the Horus Heresy series. Subjectively, one can argue why they like or don't like one versus the other. Objectively, there's no denying that Neil Roberts' artwork got better since 2007. Is Lee or Fowler's current art the caliber of what you see on most the covers of novels in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section (or well-selling comic books/graphic novels for that matter)? No. But then, Roberts' work circa 2007 wasn't of the caliber you'd see on most covers, either.

And that's really the crux of the matter to me: I want to see the book do well. I like this image, but not for the cover of a novel - because I don't think it's of a caliber to encourage sales.
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby revelation » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:02 pm

Phoebus wrote:
Is Lee or Fowler's current art the caliber of what you see on most the covers of novels in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section (or well-selling comic books/graphic novels for that matter)? No.



That's just pure opinion and not objective fact.

Also, I was responding to your post because you implied that "style" was a defining factor in your feeling as to whether something was "good" or "bad", which I pointed out is flawed, then you go on to agree with that, then right after somewhat contradict yourself by making the above comment in quotes. I could be wrong about this. I'm unsure though because you seem to continue to conflate "good/bad" with "style". /shrug

To clarify, where you see Lee and Fowler's art falling short in terms of quality to most other sci-fi/fantasy art covers, I see mostly stylistic difference and artistic choice. Moreover, the fact that you feel this way about not one, but two different artists with similar styles, imo strongly indicates that you are conflating "style" with "quality".

Anyhow, I don't want to hijack this thread and I'm not mad. I always read and like your posts Phoebus. I think we might just be having a small disconnect when it comes to this particular issue.

Like Pyro said, to each his/her own. Let's leave it at that.
Last edited by revelation on Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:53 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby revelation » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:11 pm

Pyroriffic wrote:With 'Portents', I was asked what I might like for the cover, but I didn't know what it would be until it was released. With 'Gildar Rift', I exchanged emails with Jon Sullivan over the tiniest of details. I guess it varies!


It must feel great to finally finish a book and then to also see a piece of art that reflects what you've written, especially if it lines up exactly with how you would imagine the given scene or character, must be an additional cherry on top.
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby Vivia » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:12 pm

Phoebus wrote:
And that's really the crux of the matter to me: I want to see the book do well. I like this image, but not for the cover of a novel - because I don't think it's of a caliber to encourage sales.

That sounds like bs to me. How is this cover different from the old Space Wolves covers? My edition of Space Wolf has a cover by Wayne England and it's very cartoonish with a SW posing with a gun, I bought it because of the cover, Portents has superior art in form and composition. The earlier editions of Gaunt's Ghost had awful covers in my opinion and they have always sold well. Art with Space Marines holding a gun are the staple of BL publications, some less successful than others, Portents is one of the better.
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby Rob P » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:37 pm

It looks quite like Warcraft comic art e.g. if Lo'Gosh found some power armour.
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby Phoebus » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:56 am

I promise I'm not responding here just to get the last word in. It's clear, however, that at least one of my last posts was poorly phrased, and I want to clarify myself.

revelation wrote:That's just pure opinion and not objective fact.

It's really neither, revelation. You don't have to take my word for it, either. I mean, I could invite you to simply check out the same sample size of fantasy/sci-fi novels and graphic novels that I imagine you have at your local bookstore as well. Even more simply, though, all you have to do is check out the range of Black Library novels on the website. You tell me how many hardback novels and Heresy covers Fowler has been entrusted with. I hope that doesn't sound cross; it's not my intent!

A quick clarification, while I'm at it: I'm primarily talking about Fowler's artwork. You brought up Lee, but with the exception of his work for "Malediction", I think his work has been quite good.

Also, I was responding to your post because you implied that "style" was a defining factor in your feeling as to whether something was "good" or "bad", which I pointed out is flawed, then you go on to agree with that, then right after somewhat contradict yourself by making the above comment in quotes. I could be wrong about this. I'm unsure though because you seem to continue to conflate "good/bad" with "style". /shrug

I can see now that I did not express myself clearly. At the very least, I did a poor job of picking the right words.

I did use the word "cartoonish". I'm not one to disparage styles prevalent in sequential arts by default (I love the medium), but Fowler's art certainly call to mind that medium. I can't help but feel that your responses and Vivia's are informed by a need (?) to defend the artist, but what I'm ultimately trying to say is that Fowler's art hits far closer here ...
Image
... than here:
Image

Does that make it "bad" art? No, it doesn't. But the relative value of the two is best expressed by the publisher's choices, which thus far have seen Neil Roberts producing covers for NYT Bestseller List novels and Mr. Fowler producing artwork for audio releases and eBooks. And again, my intent here is not to disparage Fowler but to express my desire for higher-caliber artwork for Pyro's novels, so as to increase her sales.

Vivia wrote:That sounds like bs to me. How is this cover different from the old Space Wolves covers? My edition of Space Wolf has a cover by Wayne England and it's very cartoonish with a SW posing with a gun, I bought it because of the cover, Portents has superior art in form and composition. The earlier editions of Gaunt's Ghost had awful covers in my opinion and they have always sold well. Art with Space Marines holding a gun are the staple of BL publications, some less successful than others, Portents is one of the better.

Vivia, just above I made a point of contrasting Neil Roberts' artwork from 2006 versus his artwork today. I'm not sure where the benefit is in comparing Black Library artwork from that far back with what is available today.
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby Fenris » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:27 am

Image
Thrusting his thunder hammer into the sky, he shouted—so that all could hear "Primarch.Progenitor, to your glory!"
"And to the glory of Him on Earth!" his brothers bellowed in response
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:51 pm

That's the most badass art yet on an End Times book, I think!
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby Fenris » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:40 pm

While the book has vanished,we have the full art for Umbra sumus' cover
Image

The safety print on the HB backpack of a CSM is some nice dissonance :lol:
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby Major Rawne » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:02 pm

Woah Eldar in the background that I hadn't previously spotted. Fantastic bit of work, loads of detail that you can see that would otherwise be lost in the book cover.
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby Midgard » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:01 pm

Re: Umbra Sumus, accordingly to my local GW store, it will be in stock here on Saturday... and I asked him to set aside a copy for me. Love the cover though, it is much more detailed and, dare I say, almost... quasi-realistic-looking?
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby Xisor » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:24 am

Off of Anthony Reynold's fb - the original, unused art for Kharn: Eater of Worlds.

(NB: it's a bit wide, you might want to open in a new tab.)

Image
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Re: New BL Artwork

Postby Vivia » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:04 am

That is a most unfortunate armour design, not a good look. :?

I like the Umbra Sumus cover, the colours and details at least, the composition is a bit all over the place.
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