Horus Heresy Weekender III

Considering Black Library books, products and events.

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Shaggy » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:46 am

Won't be doing a full section of the notes tonight (will start doing so this coming week - promise!) but a few highlights of the weekend:-

- the HH Weekender III was brought forward to February so that it didn't clash with Warhammer World Grand Re-Opening in May (weekend of 16th/17th). There are going to be 3 permanent stores instead of just the current one... Black Library, Forge World and general GW. It's obvious that they are scheduling a few new goodies to be released that weekend. It's going to be a ticket-only thing, limited to 500 people per day (£10 a ticket) - Saturday and Sunday will allegedly be identical in what's on offer, happening etc - no real details as yet. Tickets go on sale on the internet Monday 9th February.

- the Forge World Book 5 "Tempest" will be coming out much earlier than many (including myself) had expected - "Spring 2015" - so they're planning/hoping for it to be ready for the above-mentioned re-opening. Book 5 will be the attack on Calth - just the initial attack, no Underworld War, Shadow Crusade or anything like that... that'll be Book 6, probably out by Xmas 2015. Then - allegedly/hopefully - Book 7 will be the Burning Of Prospero.

- "Tallarn : Ironclad" is about the closing stages of the Tallarn war. There may be a few other little bits later to flesh things out, but that'll pretty much seal it for that event.

- the 'Mechanicum lemon-juicer' (Ordinatus machine - you'll get the joke if you see the pictures!) was shown to us as unfinished concept art... so won't be out immediately. Going to be bigger than a Baneblade. Looks pretty damned good. The other big model shown - still very much a work in progress - is a Stormbird (Sokar Pattern)... not the uber-massive version that some have talked about, but definitely much larger than a Thunderhawk - one of the pics showed a rear ramp with a Rhino on it!

(the Saturday evening entertainment saw the creation of the feared Mechanicum 'Cockinatus' - a frightening super-heavy war machine with two fully-adjustable plasticene examples of male genitalia - this particularly disturbed Laurie Goulding, especially when we later used it to threaten his whisky glass... the machine has since disappeared, and it is suspected that Laurie's objections were a mere smokescreen to disguise his overwhelming desire for it! ;) )

- next Primarch model is Roboute Guilliman. From the single teaser pic we saw, looks quite good.

- Graham McNeill is about 10,000 words into "The Crimson King". And it features, amongst others, Lucius (The will-be Eternal).

- there will be (probably! can never be sure) a Garro model.

- this year's main running joke was Dark Angel shoulderpads. Anything and everything will be a) wanted more by people (eg: scenery crates, cranes, High Elf embroidery guides) or b) done before (eg: models for the two missing legions) before said shoulderpads are ever released. Allegedly. ;)

- this year's other running joke is whether Saul Tarvitz survived or not (massed author response "He DEAD!") and especially driving Laurie Goulding insane over whether he survived or not! Even to the extent of sabotaging the projector display for the final seminar to rename Laurie as Saul Tarvitz! :lol:

- confirmation that all Primarchs will get models (well, duh!) and that most/all of them will have at least one new figure made for them to reflect the changes in them (but NOT Zombie Ferrus!).

- Forge World will be moving to the larger 32mm bases, but it was stressed that they don't consider it compulsory in any way to change those models with existing smaller bases.

- hints that Corvus Corax may be the next primarch model after Guilliman, but he's been passed over a few times already, so... who knows?

- and my team ("Horus Ate My Hamster") won the evening entertainment/quiz/build-off/Twitterfest... including the winner of the limerick/haiku competition being penned by my good self! :D

More to follow...
In defeat, malice.
In victory, revenge.

My lifeform type is tee tee hatch nex ool
Shall we do rishathra?
User avatar
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:48 am
Location: Nottingham

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Shaggy » Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:50 am

Apologies... notes on the various seminars will be forthcoming (people have been asking - sorry! :oops: ) but real life (such as it is, ha ha!) has kind of got in the way this week. Partway through typing up the notes on the first seminar, so it is happening... although the back-up plan (cheapo voice recorder) turned out to be a total bust. Obviously you get what you pay for with those things. Good job I scribbled down a fair few manual notes, but there will be stuff I've missed.
In defeat, malice.
In victory, revenge.

My lifeform type is tee tee hatch nex ool
Shall we do rishathra?
User avatar
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:48 am
Location: Nottingham

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Shaggy » Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:12 am

OK... draft (ie: partial!) notes for the first seminar. That blasted cheapo voice recorder really messed me around. I'm going to put notes on here based on my scribbled manual notes, then have another go at trying to decipher the noise on the recorder and see if I can flesh them out a bit more.
Sorry about this, peeps... talk about a total Charlie-Foxtrot! :evil:

“The Galaxy Burns” (about Book 4 “Conquest”)
Alan Bligh, Andy Hoare, Tony Cottrell

This seminar intended to ‘set the scene’ for the Weekender, giving a bit of an overview of Book 4 “Conquest” and then using that to move onto possible future work.

Started by talking about the Solar Auxilia, who are basically the big ‘new’ thing in “Conquest”.
When creating them, studied various colonial invaders in Earth history – one prime example being the Conquistadores.
As they are often outnumbered, the SA typically land and create a beachhead, fort up and then basically invite the enemy to attack (tactically defensive, strategically offensive). Overall intention is to either defeat the enemy themselves – best case scenario – or hold on long enough for reinforcements to arrive and then beat them!
Unlike the Imperial Guard Astra Militarum of the 40k universe, who are primarily a defensive force, the SA are a force for exploration and conquest.

Q: Was it hard to turn the Legio Tempestus traitor?
AB: No, they always had been, going right back Adeptus Titanicus. One faction of the Legio later become Tzeentchian titans, seen at the Battle Of Terra.

Q: Are there any plans for a Chaos Knights list?
AB: Titans, Knights and Mechanicum will all gradually get tainted, so yes – but not immediately.
TC: There will be some new Knight models over the next few months, including some tainted.
AB: Legio Ignatum are not in Book 4 (or the forthcoming Book 5) – they are mainly in the Segmentum Solar, in Dorn’s area. There will always be detachments however, so you can always use them (or others) in an area where they aren’t generally written as being.

Q: Will there be an Imperial Army list in the future? For defensive battles against Legions?
AB: There will not be on unifying list for the Imperial Army because there are so many different types of armed forces that make up the Imperial Army, many of them recruited from conquered worlds, so there will be wildly different looks to them. There are likely to be several sub-lists in the future (hinted at Book 5?)

Q: Will any Imperial Army lists include Land Raiders, Rhinos etc being used for them, as put forward in the original Rogue Trader book?
AB: Maybe, maybe not.
TC: Back in the day, GW couldn’t afford to make lots of different large models, could only have a very few plastic kits, so that’s basically why the existing vehicles were used for other armies. Those production restrictions no longer apply (hinting at – but not outright saying – that the answer to the question is ‘no’?)

Q: Are there any plans for 30K plastic marines? Boxes of Mk2, Mk3 etc? Maybe mixed boxes?
TC: Maybe, but there are no plans for such. Concentrating on resin models via Forge World.

Q: Are FW/30K going to go to the larger 32mm bases?
TC: It’s a work in progress – probably.
AB: There won’t be any compulsion to move to the larger bases.
In defeat, malice.
In victory, revenge.

My lifeform type is tee tee hatch nex ool
Shall we do rishathra?
User avatar
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:48 am
Location: Nottingham

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Shaggy » Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:56 am

Again, only partial notes for the next seminar... after all the others are done, I'll go back and see if I can decipher any of the recordings to flesh it out a little.

“War On Tallarn”.
John French, Alan Bligh, Laurie Goulding

JF: In WH40K, Tallarn is a desert world, no water, everyone lives in shelters. The Imperial Guard presence raised here are the Tallarn Desert Raiders. But before the Horus Heresy, the planet was very different.
The background to Tallarn started being mentioned in the early 90s by Rick Priestley, with a few hints about the times around the Horus Heresy – specific mention of the biggest tank battle in human history. The reason being – the Iron Warriors virus-bombed the planet, so they could only fight in tanks or other totally sealed environments – the whole world is a noxious swamp of death (good phrase, that!).

LG: The virus attack on Tallarn was different from that on Isstvan III. Unlike Isstvan, there was no firestorm.

AB: The Imperium has many different types of Exterminatus weaponry, many different kinds of virus. Details from the old ‘fluff’… after the war on Tallarn had ended, there were over 1 million wrecks littering the place… and, of course, the famous line re how many took part in the battles – TEN MILLION TANKS! :D

JF: The initial thought was that the battles just took place between the Iron Warriors and the Imperial Army – but there just weren’t enough Iron Warriors to do so… even if you had the entire IW legion and put just one legionary in each tank, you still wouldn’t come anywhere near the numbers needed. So more were needed (on both sides). Hence, for one thing, it was decided to make Tallarn into a staging area for the Great Crusade.
Then there was the question as to why fight there at all and why did it get so big? Partly because neither side could back down, too much had already been committed for it all to be just abandoned, so both sides just kept escalating.
Trying to build it logically – why do there happen to be so many convenient large underground bunkers stuffed full of fighting equipment?
The question as to why did the battle start there at all – the IW side is explained in “Ironclad”. The loyalist side is not so clear-cut… but sometimes things just happen, nobody knows why – “We’ve got to fight – we’re here, never mind why, we have to fight.”
Over a 13-month period, there’s no clear victory for either side.
The scale of the battle is beyond anything ever imagined or from history. For a bit of perspective, the largest tank battle in (real) human history was the Battle Of Kursk during WW2 – approx 5000 Russian tanks and approx 2000 German tanks. There aren’t even one million tanks on this entire planet, much less ten million!

AB: When writing for the Horus Heresy as a whole, we had to go back through all of GW’s previous publications, right back to “Rogue Trader” to find various little mentions of the Heresy. And some of the information was tucked away in the oddest of places – including on the back of some of the figure boxes! Info on Tallarn is one major example of this.

Q: Is there more to come on Tallarn?
JF: I originally wanted to do it all in one novella, but the story was just too big. “Ironclad” tells how it ends, but there may be other stuff (short stories? Novella, maybe?) to flesh it out further at some point. “Ironclad” is about how & why it happens. One question that hasn’t yet been answered is why did loyalist reinforcements turn up in such numbers – I’d like to write that.

Q: Could Tallarn eventually lead to the Epic scale being resurrected?
AB: Doubtful. A Forge World book about Tallarn is not on the schedule yet – but is probably inevitable at some point. But we’ve got enough to do as things are!

Q: <didn’t hear it properly>
LG: We will eventually release all HH stuff from BL as part of the numbered sequence (hint – “Executioner” and “Ironclad” combined? Guess…)

Q: Was it challenging working out what happened to the other 9 million tanks after the battle?
JK: Yes. The epilogue of “Ironclad” shows the IW leaving – which is not a simple process. The loyalist forces leaving takes months… many units are decimated, scattered, mixed up… a lot of damaged but (eventually?) repairable tanks, so that needs to be sorted out first before they can leave.

Q: Are there any plans to cover the void war around Tallarn, as there are two fleets close together?
JK: There are no plans to focus on it, but may touch on it in some ways.
LG: Interesting question – how do both sides manage to keep reinforcing Tallarn? Just like – in the Solar System – how can Kelbor-Hal keep supporting Horus whilst the Imperial Fists are blockading Mars? <bit of a discussion about weapons of mass destruction etc that I didn’t scribble down… all sorts of stuff getting hurled between Mars & Terra, but only a fraction would get through>
JK: There is constant vying for position in Tallarn’s orbit, a lot of tanks being held in reserve in high orbit ready to be dropped when needed. The loyalists eventually win because they go ‘all in’.
AB: It’s very hard to win a void battle without overwhelming force, and even the winners (if any) usually suffer enormous losses as well. So void forces are often wary of engaging the enemy. There is historical precedent for this, naval forces not daring to leave port.
In defeat, malice.
In victory, revenge.

My lifeform type is tee tee hatch nex ool
Shall we do rishathra?
User avatar
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:48 am
Location: Nottingham

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Shaggy » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:31 am

Flesh And Steel.
Alan Bligh, Mark Bedford, Edgar Skomorowski, Tony Cottrell

Subject – the Solar Auxilia and the Mechanicum

Initial ‘reveal’ – that an Ordinatus model (BIG!) is work in progress at FW right now… and it will be bigger than a Baneblade!

The Solar Auxilia – aggressive defence tactics, force landings and then defend the beachhead.
The Solar Auxilia are – just like the Legiones Astartes – split in the Horus Heresy… some of them have fought with Horus or other Traitor legions for years/decades… naturally in many cases they have formed tight links with these legions, so in many cases have followed them into treachery.
Looking at the new SA ogryn models:-
ES: This Ogryn design is a kind of halfway house between the Solar Auxilia infantry and tanks.
AB: The Ogryn rules in “Conquest” are WAY toned down from the initial version!
These ogryns are ‘stitched’ into their armour and then switched on – organic killing machines, but deliberately not in the style of the Mechanicum. They actually have an ‘off’ switch on the back of their head! Also a kind of cage on the side of their head to stop them biting the medicae.


MB: John Blanche’s artwork is a major inspiration for the Mechanicum. Tech-priests are the ‘human’ face of the Mechanicum – and there are much, much worse than them yet to be seen. MB wants to do the ‘crazy’ ones… the Mechanicum are the ultimate recycling army, they re-use absolutely everything left laying around after a battle, including body parts. MB likes the creepy guy look.
AB: I have at least one army where I drilled the eyes out! <hangs head in shame, laughter>
MB: The whole look of the Mechanicum is deliberately different from the rest of the Imperial forces… Mech tanks look fragile, but have lots of energy shields instead of armour. They always keep the best stuff for themselves and let the Imperial forces have the lesser gear… Legion Land Raiders, for example, are inferior to the Mech forces.
AB: Must remember that the 30k Mechanicum are NOT the 40k Adeptus Mechanicus. They are a kind of shadow empire, only partially part of the Imperium. The Dark Mechanicum have split off from the main track because they don’t want to obey the rules that have been imposed upon them (by the Emperor etc).. But we have to remember that the Mechanicum haven’t split right down the middle in the same way as the Legions… in many ways, the Mechanicum has split more. Some of the Dark Mechanicum don’t so much follow Horus as just want to rebel against the strictures of the Mechanicum – example, Cyclothrathe – they are out on the edge of the Imperium, and what they’ve found out there has driven them mad.
The Legio Cybernetica are a kind of compromise from the age of (now banned) sentient machines – the LC have artificial intelligence but not artificial sentience – they aren’t self-willed, sort of artificial beasts. However, as the war goes on and supply chains get disrupted (on both sides) it starts getting hard to replace the cortices in the robots – the Dark Mechanicum will start to take short cuts and try using daemons instead – although this is later, doesn’t happen immediately. Even during the Great Crusade, some of the Primarchs were started to get worried abou how many battle-automata were being created – suspected that the Mechanicum were building up to take on the Imperium itself? Although there are differing levels of suspicion amongst the Primarchs – for example, after a while (after the start of the Heresy) Perturabo starts to mistrust his own legion so much that he has a bodyguard of battle-automata created, instead of using his own legionaries.

Q: Will there be a red book for the Mechanicum?
TC: Yes, but not just yet – there is more yet to add.

Q: Will we see some of the odder sub-cults of the Mechanicum? (such as the electro-priests from 40K).
TC: A lot of 30K stuff isn’t seen in 40K and vice versa – the Mechanicum has evolved a lot.
AB: The 30K Mechanicum has no set organisation – a lot of it is ad hoc (the Taghmata are likened to a feudal ‘raising of banners’) and varies wildly between forge worlds. We may see some bits of the unusual stuff, but the 30K Mechanicum army we see is the ‘macro’ army, the more common stuff.

Q: Will we see 30K Skitarii?
TC: Skitarii are 40K Adeptus Mechanicus troops, their role has pretty much already been covered in 30K – if they are seen, they are likely to be quite different from what you’re used to.

Q: Will there be more types of Ordinatus?
TC: In 40K, each Ordinatus machine is unique, and they are very rare. In 30K they are somewhat less rare, so we will likely do some variants.

Q: Will you cover the relationship between the Mechanicum and the Iron Warriors? Rules and background?
AB: We will cover how the Iron Warriors’ relationship with the Mechanicum evolves – ditto with the Iron Hands, Salamanders – even the Dark Angels (my note – interesting!). After they became one of the Shattered Legions, the remains of the Iron Hands cope in different ways – fight back, start a guerrilla war, some basically go mad. Some turn to forbidden tech – the Keys Of Hel.
MB: Some legions desperately need to replace lost warriors, and quickly…

Q: Will there be any weapon packs for the Mechanicum? For Myrmidons?
MB: Yes, we’re doing them now, but they’re not ready yet.

Q: Will you produce rules for the tech used by the Raven Guard? Reflex shields, etc?
AB: That all depends on the space available in the books. Some stuff – like that Raven Guard gear mentioned – will be left to later books.

Q: After having seen the illustration of the Mechanicum Ordinatus being planned, are you going to be using CAD (Computer-Aided Design) more?
TC: We will be using it more, but still using old-fashioned sculpting as well – kind of a fusion of the two. We will model by hand and by computer – were are not a CGI company!

Q: Are there any Solar Auxilia heavy weapons coming?
TC: The SA don’t tend to carry many heavy weapons.
AB: Most of the SA’s heavy weapons are machine-mobile rather than shoulder-carried or the 40K Astra Militarum two-man fixed teams… they will use Rapier platforms and such. There will be some other heavy/special weapons coming – such as snipers? (Joke about unicycle Rough Riders).

Q: Will there be any Mechanicum transfer sheets?
TC: Yes – we have just taken on someone (Jez Goodwin’s daughter, in fact) just to do decals & brass etchings and the like. Previously they’ve been done by various artists in between other projects, if a bit of spare time came up. Now that we have a dedicated person for this, there should be a lot more.

Q: Will there be a Kelbor-Hal model and rules?
AB & TC: We need to get the narrative to Mars before doing something like that. We will be doing at least one book on Mars later – within the next 4 books perhaps? (my note – if what is mentioned in later seminars is true, then at the earliest this would be Book 8).

Q: In one of the Garro audios there is a kick-ass Mechanicum flyer – will you be doing model/rules?
MB: I have some ideas… <laughter>

Q: (Sorry – didn’t hear the question!)
AB: The Scyllax are guardian-automata, they are defensively orientated and have no cortex. Very little of them is organic, for obvious reasons – inside them is a rad-furnace, they are intended to kill with rad weaponry. Sort of the Mechanicum equivalent to the Legion Destroyer squads.
In defeat, malice.
In victory, revenge.

My lifeform type is tee tee hatch nex ool
Shall we do rishathra?
User avatar
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:48 am
Location: Nottingham

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Shaggy » Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:09 am

Blades Of The Traitor.
Nick Kyme, Chris Wraight, Guy Haley, Graham McNeill, John French, Laurie Goulding

Started off with a brief overview from each author about his story in the anthology “Blades Of The Traitor”:-

CW: ”Daemonology” – Mortarion. Shows how he’s developing in the period between “Scars” and “Vengeful Spirit”. Also some flashbacks to the creation of the Primarchs on Terra.
JF: “Black Oculus” – POV of a Navigator from the Iron Warriors fleet, set just after “Angel Exterminatus” – consequences of the IW ships falling into a singularity.
GH: “Twisted” – Maloghurst. Also about life and society on Horus’ flagship, the Vengeful Spirit, and how it has developed since turning traitor. Also about those who gather around Horus and vie for his attention – Maloghurst being his equerry gets the wonderful job of being the filter in that area. Not all of the petitioners are human… increasing influence of Chaos?
NK: “Chirurgeon” – about the Emperor’s Children chief apothecary Fabius (before the “Bile” was added to his name). Set after “Angel Exterminatus”, after “Imperfect” (from the “Death & Defiance” anthology), plus some flashbacks to pre-HH… NK called it “the most disturbing short story I’ve ever written”.
GMc: “Wolf Mother” – also disturbing. Follows on from “Vengeful Spirit”, set on board the ship that escaped Moloch… some nasty stowaways.

LG: (Asking each of the authors) – are there any other characters (allies of the Warmaster) that you thought of for this anthology, or would just want to write about?
GMc: Lucius. He crops up in “The Crimson King” which I’m working on now. He’s interesting because he maintains a kind of discipline for longer than the rest of his legion.
JF: The Davinite priesthood. The consequences of their tilt to Chaos and daemonology.
NK: Hadn’t really thought of any other. Maybe Konrad Curze? But can’t do that really, given what’s coming. Erebus, maybe – but he’s everywhere. (Comment from LG – NK was the last author commissioned for BOTT, but the first to present his submission – some laughter amongst the authors).
CW: I find it easier to write good guys, so it was a short list. But… possibly Typhon, I really like him as a character – the second in command who is actually the driving force behind the Death Guard turning traitor (like Erebus, even Ahriman?).
GH: I like writing bad guys. LG suggested Maloghurst to me, but would also like to do Typhon. He’s very arrogant and totally overreaches himself – it all goes very wrong for him, that kind of thing is fun to write.

Q: Which character(s) would you NOT want to write about?
NK: Alpharius – he’s been done too much. Cool character, “Legion” is a good book (I don’t want to upset Dan! <laughter>) but not him.
JF: Garro – Jim Swallow has done so much on him. LG: You came close with “Grey Angel”. JF: Yes, that’s about the Knights Errant, but not about Garro himself.
GMc: I don’t want to do a character that someone else has done well. But then again, to be contrary – that could inspire me to do better. Kind of like how Dan Abnett’s dislike of the Space Wolves drove him to swap with me and write “Prospero Burns” instead of doing the Thousand Sons. I suppose the real answer is – none, if I felt that I could do it well.
GH: A combination of JF’s and GMc’s answers. Initially I’d have said Garro. But I might relish the challenge of writing a character with another author’s stamp on it, or try to make the end product indistinguishable in style from the original author.
CW: I’m struggling to think of any. The Night Lords are possibly too far away from my mindset.

Q: Are there any characters you feel protective of? Is anyone willing to give Sevatar a go?
GH: I don’t own the character (any character). There are some that I’d like to do more of (eg: Lucretius Corvo).
JF: Sevatar – I am that idiot! <laughter> - “Child Of Night”. I’m more attached to story arcs rather than characters. The closest is probably Pollux, but I knew that others would use him.
CW: Can’t be precious over Primarchs. But lesser characters that I’ve created (eg: Revuel Arvida) – don’t want to see anyone else wreck it.
GMc: You have to write a character as if he is precious to you, as it makes the end product better – but you can’t own him. CW & I had talked about me using Arvida.

Q: Which two characters would you like to write going head to head?
NK: Already done it – Vulkan vs Curze.
GMc: I had always wanted to do Fulgrim vs Ferrus, the first death of a primarch we see – but I also enjoyed writing Perturabo slamming Fulgrim (in Perturabo’s workshop, in “Angel Exterminatus”).
GH: The Emperor vs Horus! <much laughter> - but they’ll never let me do it! I do have another one coming up – it involves my favourite primarch, Curze.
CW: I’d love to do the two unknown primarchs! <laughter>
JF: Malcador vs Magnus in the psychic realm. Also… Guilliman vs Dorn… both are ultra-loyal, but in very different ways – both possibly angry at each other for being right?

Q: How do you come up with the reasoning behind various primarch friendships (Khan and Magnus) or respect (Russ & Lorgar)?
GMc: In “Angel Exterminatus”, Perturabo talks about his friendship with Magnus – I wanted a scholarly angle to it (Perturabo more than just a warrior or siege master). To be honest, it often just comes out as you’re writing.
JF: It’s often spontaneous… but we think about these characters a lot, so it can build up over time in your head.
CW: Often you can have contradictory personalities in friendships and similar personalities can cause friction – eg: Khan and Russ.
GH: I like to see similar primarchs going down very different routes – eg: Dorn & Perturabo, or even Sanguinius & Curze (both semi-psychic, prophetic).

Q: Dumbass question about the two missing primarchs that I didn’t properly hear – unanimous & loud answer – “NO!”

Q: Who gets your vote for ‘Top Psycho’?
JF: Curze
GH: Angron

(and that’s where my notes for this one abruptly end! Odd… sorry about that)
In defeat, malice.
In victory, revenge.

My lifeform type is tee tee hatch nex ool
Shall we do rishathra?
User avatar
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:48 am
Location: Nottingham

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Shaggy » Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:40 pm

Forge World New Models.
Alan Bligh, Will Hayes, Mark Bedford, Tony Cottrell

One of the two best-attended seminars (all seats taken, standing room only).

Started off with Tony Cottrell giving a brief overview of what’s on the way, with some pictures (sorry, don’t have any of those):-
- Thunderhawk landing pad
- Rifleman Mech Deredeo Dreadnought with Hellfire plasma carronade
- Raven Guard accessories
- Dynat of the Alpha Legion (yeah, him with the cool hydra tattoos)
- Ruinstorm Daemon Prince Samus
- Space Marine Xiphon-pattern interceptor (fighter aircraft)
- Space Marine Sokar-pattern Stormbird – still a ways away.

Q: Are there any characters that you will not do a model for?
TC: We want to do models for all of the characters in the books , but it’s unlikely. All of the primarchs will definitely be done - almost all of them more than once, as they develop and change (some more drastically than others) – but we will NOT be doing Zombie Ferrus! <laughter>

Q: Will there be a Garro model?
TC: Yes. Next question? <laughter>

Q: Are there any plans for a Thudd Gun Rapier for Space Marines?
TC: Yes, it’s being done now, work in progress.

Q: Will you do any upgrade packs with different backpacks, legs etc (kneeling, running, that kind of thing)?
TC: That’s an interesting idea – we’ll look into it.

Q: Is there any chance of releasing shoulderpads soon for legions not yet covered, so people wanting to paint those legions will at least have something to be going on with?
TC: We will if we get time… the Ultramarines are next. Shoulderpads tend to be a bit of a ‘filler’ project for model designers inbetween other projects.

Q: Are you planning any other daemons or daemon princes?
TC: Yes, there is a Nurgle one coming soon.

Q: Will you be going back to do character models from earlier books?
TC: Time permitting, yes… <mentions Saul Tarvitz, Ancient Rhylanor>

Q: Will you be bringing the old-style Lightning fighter back?
TC: No.

Q: Question for Will – is there any legion part not yet done that you want to work on?
WH: I only tend to do general stuff for the legions – mainly do the Mechanicum.

Q: Will you do the third style of dreadnought from the old fluff? <my note – these were Contemptor, Deredeo and Furibundus… according to the fluff affectionately known as Chuck, Eddy and Fury! LOL>
TC: Probably.

Q: Is the new Space Marine interceptor based upon the Viper from Battlestar Galactica?
TC: It’s not his style – he lives in the 19th century! <my note – yeah, it probably is! ;) >

Q: Is there any timetable for the book on Prospero?
TC: Calth is next, then the Shadow Crusade, probably Prospero after that.

Q: Will the next large model be a Warlord Titan?
TC: Ambitious! The bulk of it would be twice that of a Reaver Titan. One day, yes. Someone From Audience: You said ‘2 years’ a year ago! MB: OK, we’re on time then! TC: Right we have a year…

Q: Will there be Warden & Baron Knights (originally from Rogue Trader)? <my note… must resist… no Barron Knights gags! LOL>
AB: We deliberately designed the Knights list to add in more Knight types later on… we will do some more at some point.

Q: Are you going to be moving to the 32mm bases?
AB: Rules-wise, we won’t demand that you all change. But yes.

Q: Will we get loyalist legion transfer sheets?
TC: Yes, and there will be a lot more decals overall, we have a new person starting on Monday to do them.

Q: Will we get more factionless models? Assassins, Agents of this/that/the other, etc?
AB: Probably. Any such will come out as the narrative gets there.

Q: Will you do any female Solar Auxilia?
TC: Yes.
MB: I want to do a female Magus.

Q: Will you do Skitarii?
MB: They are very 40k, not 30k. The Mechanicum forces are much more diverse, want to look at that first.

Q: Is there anything you’ve been looking forward to doing?
WH: Already done it! Mechanicus…
MB: Dark Mechanicus, the Fabricator General.
In defeat, malice.
In victory, revenge.

My lifeform type is tee tee hatch nex ool
Shall we do rishathra?
User avatar
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:48 am
Location: Nottingham

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Shaggy » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:38 am

Stone And Iron.
Alan Bligh, John French, Tony Cottrell

A discussion about the Imperial Fists and the Iron Warriors, their relationship to each other and their respective roles in the Horus Heresy.

JF: The Imperial Fists exemplify the Great Crusade – they are built to conquer, take and hold. They scoop up more conquered population for recruitment than the other legions, and have a greater diversity of cultures within the legion than most. Their characteristics are – discipline, a strong belief in the Great Crusade & the Imperial Truth, the keeping of oaths. 2 main extremes of character in the legion – the crusader aspect, fiery, etc (as exemplified by Sigismund) and stoicism (Pollux).

AB: Iron Warriors… many of the legions have a parallel or similar ‘twin’ – with the Iron Warriors, it’s the Imperial Fists. They are very similar in many ways, but also very different – the nature of their differences come down to the differences in motive – the Iron Warriors during the Great Crusade have a particular job – war as industry, battles as an equation. Unlike the IF they have no faith in the future, no fire – it’s all intellect and pragmatism. Perturabo’s upbringing on Olympia made a difference – it was a place of betrayal, and that helped a lot to shape him. When he took over the legion, he conducted a decimation – this wasn’t an act of pique, but a cold lesson – if you’re not the best, you’re nothing.
JF: The IW see the ability to win regardless of losses as a strength, not callousness.
AB: Not committing all available forces to a particular task would be weakness. They make sure that a job is done – and once a job is done, it’s done forever. They aren’t subtle, and they can be manipulated by those who are (eg: in “Angel Exterminatus”). Betrayal is the key factor with them – why they turned on the Emperor. The other legions had easier jobs, got all of the glory – the IW got all of the hard grinding jobs that produced nothing but high casualty lists… and it gradually wore them down psychologically. When planning his rebellion, Horus deliberately exacerbates this – “amplifying the echo chamber of paranoia” within the IW legion (my note – such a good line! :D ). But even after the IW join him, Horus still doesn’t trust Perturabo, so still gives them the dirty jobs. But as always, the IW endure… although they start to splinter away from the traitor side – betrayed again. The IW don’t really fall to Chaos all that much – they are too logical & rational… more traitor than Chaotic. Although the touch of Chaos amplifies their paranoia and self-destructive urges. However, there is a relatively high percentage of the legion that remains loyalist – lots of semi-independent detachments who have been out of contact with the main legion for years ro even decades – didn’t ‘get the memo’ that suddenly they’re supposed to be fighting the Emperor. Eg: Paramar. Still unyielding – but in loyalty not treachery.
JF: Their style of warfare is one of attrition… to use a poker analogy, they always call & raise, won’t blink first.

Q: Will we get IW figures for Forrix, Kroeger, etc?
AB: Possibly – will probably do rules for them at some point, so may do figures.
JF: I think that Forrix is an interesting character – logistician.

Q: What would the IW do in a ‘Kobayashi Maru’ situation?
JF: They’ll look for another way – there’s always another weapon, more force to use, etc. They just will not give up.
AB: They’ll take you down with them…

Q: If the IF felt betrayed (such as after the HH with the introduction of the Codex Astartes and the splitting of the Legions) – which Chaos power do you think they’d turn to?
JF: I can’t see Dorn falling at all. It’s not impossible, but it’s just not in his nature.

Q: What other legion rivalries do you like?
JF: The Space Wolves vs the Thousand Sons, Space Wolves vs Dark Angels, Ultramarines vs Word Bearers, Alpha Legion vs Ultramarines (my note – isn’t that pretty much all of the known rivalries? :D )
AB: The Iron Warriors and the Salamanders are possibly the furthest apart psychologically.

Q: Are there any plans to expand the Curze/Dorn conflict?
JF: Dunno, but it’s an interesting one – they are both idealists and absolutists, just very different in their approach.

Q: Should Dorn & Perturabo have had their roles swapped?
JF: Maybe, if they’d known that the Heresy was coming. However, when the Emperor retreats to Terra he wants someone to guard him but not ask too many questions – Dorn is perfect for that, but Perturabo is more curious, would have been poking around asking questions in no time.
AB: And the Emperor knows that Dorn’s loyalty is absolute – isn’t quite so certain about Perturabo.

Q: Should Dorn be judged a traitor because he warns Horus in “Nemesis”?
JF: Dorn is on an arc of necessity. “I am Warmaster in all but name” in the Solar System – there is an internal war (the webway) and an external. Dorn is standing on an external wall and has to make all of the decisions with the Emperor being unavailable – so he has to maintain the ideals of the Imperium as he knows them.
AB: Dorn also doesn’t rely on or trust non-Astartes – especially not assassins or the Master of Assassins.
JF: Would YOU trust Malcador? Wearing who-knows-how-many masks, unknown origins, etc.

Q: Why don’t the IF sort Mars out once and for all?
JF: That’s very hard – it’s held by a fanatical cult of machine worshippers with the best weaponry in the galaxy.
AB: They could possibly crack Mars, but at ruinous cost.
JF: And they don’t know when Horus will arrive – “Every night is the night before invasion”. Plus the Solar System is not a stable place… there are ships arriving at the system edge every day, getting shot down, etc. Who are they? Refugees? Scouts for the enemy? How do you know? Plus there is a constant low-level war in the Solar System – various renegade bands etc. Plus lots of old weaponry, secrets, hidden bases etc laying around.

Q: Will we see more of how & why who ends up leading the IF legion?
AB: That comes after the Iron Cage – not explored yet.
In defeat, malice.
In victory, revenge.

My lifeform type is tee tee hatch nex ool
Shall we do rishathra?
User avatar
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:48 am
Location: Nottingham

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Shaggy » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:43 am

The Art Of The Heresy.
Neil Roberts, Mark Bedford, Rhys Pugh, Laurie Goulding

Not really an awful lot of notes taken on this one... partly because - well, there were a lot of visuals! :lol:

One important mention, though... an upcoming HH novel - "Meduson" (errr... wonder what that's about?).
Will be a numbered edition, only on sale at the new BL store at Warhammer World (after it re-opens in May) - will not be available to order online, etc. Not sure if they said whether it will be available at events like the Weekender - probably not?

There was also mention of models for the Ultramarines Honour Guard, but I didn't make any notes on that (if I can decipher the awful recording made on that rubbish voice recorder, I'll come back and add anything relevant).
In defeat, malice.
In victory, revenge.

My lifeform type is tee tee hatch nex ool
Shall we do rishathra?
User avatar
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:48 am
Location: Nottingham

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Death Nikorps » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:14 pm

A huuuuuuge thanks for all your notes Shaggy !!!

All new Black Library titles & covers here:

===> https://twitter.com/blacklibrarium <===

Black Library upcoming books 2018
User avatar
Death Nikorps
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:29 pm

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Shaggy » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:48 am

Alan Bligh, Andy Hoare, Tony Cottrell

The other totally packed-out seminar… previewing Book 5 of the FW hardbacks.

Release date – Spring 2015, hopefully in time for the Grand ReOpening of Warhammer World in May.
Book 5 is about the Word Bearers’ assault on Calth – covers about 30 hours of battle. Does NOT cover the underworld war, that comes later.
Factions covered – Ultramarines, Word Bearers, Mechanicum, Imperial Militia, Warp Cults, Knights Titan Legions.

AB: Background on the XIII Legion – the biggest legion of them all, approx ¼ million legionaries. More background on the Word Bearers and how they are changing. More background on Knights and Titans, including one loyalist Titan Legion that dies on Calth. Army lists – militia and cults, Some new Legion units.
Calth – is representative of the Imperium as a whole, a work in progress, growing – and smashed by the Horus Heresy.
AH: A new Knight house (didn’t hear it very well – something like Vornher?) – the largest in the Segmentum. We created them specifically to destroy them… although there may be a handful (not on Calth) that may survive.
TC: Book 6 will probably cover the Shadow Crusade – hopefully will be released before the end of the year/ Will hopefully cover the World Eaters, the underworld war, etc.
Also planning an FW ‘Modelling Masterclass’ book, to be brought out between Books 5 & 6.
Then Book 7 – Prospero?
The next Primarch model in the Character series will be Guilliman – also hopefully ready for May.

Q: Are you going to produce rules for the Shattered Legions?
AB: We couldn’t fit it into Book 4. The Shettered Legions will require a different approach, all based around small-unit rules for Marines. We’re not sure what book it will go in – unlikely to be the next one… maybe a separate smaller book? Not sure yet.

Q: Can you tell us more about the Imperial Militia and Warp Cults?
AB: This won’t be a huge army list – you will have numbers on your side, but not much in the way of elite forces. Lots of diverse options, from poorly-equipped troops with outdated weapons to something closer to that of the Imperial Army.

Q: Will Daemon Angron be in the next book?
AB: Wait and see…

Q: When you come to do Prospero, which models will you bring out first – the 1000 Sons or the Space Wolves?
TC: We’ll do them both at the same time.

Q: How did you choose the weapons for Guilliman, seeing as he’s known to have a huge armoury of them.
TC: There was a lot of debate over that one, we finally went with power first and sword.
AB: There was a vast selection available, but all of the primarchs have such.
TC: And they are all followed by a little caddy? <laughter>
AB: Fist and sword seemed particularly symbolic for Guilliman.
AH: He’s armed as he was at the end of “Betrayer”.

Q: Will the two Calth books be done as a boxed set?
TC: We may do a slip case for the two.

Q: Will we see a weapons upgrade pack of gladii for the Ultramarines?
TC: Possibly.

Q: Will there be much on daemons in the Calth books?
AB: More in the second than in the first.
AH: They’ll only be mentioned relatively briefly, there’s not enough warp presence initially for them to manifest much.

Q: When will we get the character model of Corax?
TC: <hints at him being released before Russ & Magnus> Some of the preparation work has already been done, but there’s not a fixed schedule.

Q: Which characters of the XIII Legion will get rules?
AB: Guilliman, a certain dreadnought, a very important captain. Some will be saved for the second Calth book. There will be 2-3 speciality units.
TC: And there will be at least one new Word Bearers character, plus revised rules for some of the existing EB characters.

Q: Prospero – what will be in it? And what do you see as being the main challenge?
AB: It will be hard to do the Custodes and Sisters Of Silence properly. Plus various agents of either side. Doing the Thousand Sons will be tricky – got to get the psychic rules just right.

Q: Will there be rules for Oll Persson and other non-Astartes?
AB: Probably not… but we may eventually do an “Agents Of…” book.

Q: <sorry, didn’t hear the question>
AB: One thing that is covered in Book 5 is what the Ultramarines were like and what they did before Guilliman was found. What Ultramar is, why the XIII Legion is so large, and why the Emperor lets them have what is basically their own mini empire – the reason for them ruling 500+ worlds.

Q: What will you be doing on the Mechanicum in Book 5?
AB: A few new units, some updates. There is an eventual plan to have a Mechanicum red book.
TC: The Ordinatus is NOT in Book 5.

Q: Will there be a book on the Death Of Innocence? < civil war on Mars>
AB: We’ve always planned on it, might include the blockade of Mars, the Solar War, etc.

Q: Will Argel Tal appear in Book 5?
AB+TC: Not in that book – maybe Book 6.

Q: Can you give us details on the new Legion units?
AB: A new fighter, a Stormbird – mainly vehicles this time.

Q: Can you give us any details on the campaign system in Book 5?
AH: It will be in a similar format to the other books. We want to avoid making it the wargame of “Know No Fear”. It will be broken down into 3 phases, and you will need to win all 3. If you win, you won’t save Calth – the objective is to survive and preserve as much as possible. Plus there will be some generic missions.

Q: Covering the changes in the various Traitor Legions, will you provide optional upgrade to existing army lists or bring out new lists?
AB: A bit of both. There will be more Rites Of War. There will be some extra units, some existing units will just be changed.

Q: How do you temper the rules when creating Primarchs?
AB: Right from the start we worked out the various power levels etc for all of the Primarchs and Legions – collaborated with John French.

Q: The XIII Legion have always been very ‘vanilla’ in 40K – how do you get past that on the tabletop in 30K?
AB: Ignore 40K. Examine what they are in 30K and it develops from there.

Q: Will there be any more legion relics in the campaign system?
AB: Probably… but no ‘book of relics’.

Q: Is there any reason that you have bypassed some of the Primarchs when bringing out character models?
TC: It’s not that easy to do them all in order – we will come back to do Corax, Perturabo etc… just prioritising.
AB: It’s a little hard to do rules for the Imperial Fists at Phall, so it was kind of hard to Dorn at that time.

Q: The new Guilliman model – will you be making it a set with Lorgar? (a la Fulgrim & Ferrus)
TC: No.

Q: Will you do the mission of the story in “Macragge’s Honour”?
AH: There will be some mission/campaign stuff related to it.
In defeat, malice.
In victory, revenge.

My lifeform type is tee tee hatch nex ool
Shall we do rishathra?
User avatar
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:48 am
Location: Nottingham

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Shaggy » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:36 am

“Garro : Knight Errant”
James Swallow, John French, Laurie Goulding Saul Tarvitz ;)
(My notes for this one appear to be even more spotty than most of the others… my apologies)

JS: New Garro audio – “Ashes Of Fealty”, set after “Flight Of The Eisenstein” – featuring Garro and Voyen, the ex-apothecary, in an argument on faith vs reason.
The final fate of the 70 surviving Astartes from the Eisenstein will come together by the Siege Of Terra – and not all of these will be nice fates.

LG: John, Why did you do “Grey Angel”? – Knights Errant, but not Garro?
JF: I didn’t want to do Garro – he’s Jim’s. But there’s more to the Knights Errant than just Garro – I wanted to show that they have missions as well, independent from Garro. I also wanted to look at why nobody checked on Caliban? But we answered that with more questions.
JS: Certain truths have been kept from Garro, and as he learns them so do we. Mainly down to Malcador – all is wheels within wheels with him, he sees everything as a tool used to do what he wants.
LG: Interesting to note that in “Shield Of Lies”, Malcador is seen as not being infallible.

Q: Do you think that Malcador is being portrayed almost as a villain?
JF: No – it’s just that he’s not straightforward, people don’t empathise with him. It’s like he’s seen as the opposite of Dorn?
JS: Or the opposite of Garro – the ‘single good man’. Like Captain America, he’s a character with a strong moral centre. Malcador is definitely a loyal man, but isn’t a ‘good’ man. Malcador is honest – about his duplicity.

Q: The Knights Errant from “Vengeful Spirit” – will we see them in novels again, not just audios?
JS: Yes.

Q: Are the Knights Errant looking for real estate around Titan?
JF: <laughs> Listen to “Shield Of Lies”.

Q: Are there any plans for anyone to do a back story for Malcador?
LG: It has been discussed – Chris Wraight has actually pitched on something for it, really off the wall – chillingly awesome. About the last fortress of the Sigillites – now ruins buried under part of the Imperial Palace. So the question is – who were the Sigillites?

Q: Do you like writing about loyalists from traitor legions more?
JS: Actually, I’d like to write about a traitor from a loyalist legion.

Q: Which Knight Errant figure do you want?
JS: Garro!
JF: All of them.

Q: Have you ever thought of bringing in a Knight Errant from the Alpha Legion?
JS: What makes you think that they aren’t already? I wouldn’t trust any Alpha Legionary, anyway.
LG: It’s almost like the Knights Errant are a loyalist version of the Alpha Legion anyway – their tactics, deception, sneakiness, etc.
JF: The Knights Errant are in grey – all of the legions were originally grey.

Sorry, folks – that’s it. Major missing segments, I think. When I get time – and if it doesn’t drive me insane trying to decipher them – I’ll try to listen to the crappy recordings I made and see if I can add anything I’ve missed. No promises…
In defeat, malice.
In victory, revenge.

My lifeform type is tee tee hatch nex ool
Shall we do rishathra?
User avatar
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:48 am
Location: Nottingham

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby revelation » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:30 am

Thanks again for the notes Shaggy.

I'm really looking forward to the Calth FW book, so I enjoyed those notes especially.

edit: I'm actually most looking forward to the Prospero book. That one sounds like it's going to be a challenge for the FW team.
User avatar
Posts: 1158
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 9:10 pm

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Shaggy » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:25 am

revelation wrote:Thanks again for the notes Shaggy.

I'm really looking forward to the Calth FW book, so I enjoyed those notes especially.

edit: I'm actually most looking forward to the Prospero book. That one sounds like it's going to be a challenge for the FW team.

Agree with you on that last... and I get the feeling that the FW team regard the Prospero book as a bit of a challenge!
Firstly they've got the Space Wolves to do... one of the more idiosyncratic Legions. And that's going to be the easiest part.
Then they've got to do the Thousand Sons... and Alan Bligh specifically said that they are going to have to work hard to get the psychic rules for them just right.
And if that wasn't enough... then they've got the Custodes and the Sisters Of Silence to get right! Not going to be easy...
In defeat, malice.
In victory, revenge.

My lifeform type is tee tee hatch nex ool
Shall we do rishathra?
User avatar
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:48 am
Location: Nottingham

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Duke_Leto » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:32 pm

Shaggy wrote:Flesh And Steel.
Q: Will we see 30K Skitarii?
TC: Skitarii are 40K Adeptus Mechanicus troops, their role has pretty much already been covered in 30K – if they are seen, they are likely to be quite different from what you’re used to.

I guess Forgeworld and Black Library (or at least Graham McNeil) are not talking :D

See Vengeful Spirit chapter 10
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:43 am

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Xisor » Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:50 pm

Duke_Leto wrote:
Shaggy wrote:Flesh And Steel.
Q: Will we see 30K Skitarii?
TC: Skitarii are 40K Adeptus Mechanicus troops, their role has pretty much already been covered in 30K – if they are seen, they are likely to be quite different from what you’re used to.

I guess Forgeworld and Black Library (or at least Graham McNeil) are not talking :D

See Vengeful Spirit chapter 10

That's optimistic! We could forget Vengeful Spirit happened? Awesome!
Admin of Ruin
"When my housemate puts his bike in the middle of the living room floor, I find that inordinately jarring, annoying and rude, but for me to refer to it as "genocide" would be incorrect." -Ath
Xisor's Dice-o-matic Maiminator
User avatar
Site Admin
Posts: 4995
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:13 pm
Location: Canterbury

Re: Horus Heresy Weekender III

Postby Duke_Leto » Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:47 am

Xisor wrote:
Duke_Leto wrote:
Shaggy wrote:Flesh And Steel.
Q: Will we see 30K Skitarii?
TC: Skitarii are 40K Adeptus Mechanicus troops, their role has pretty much already been covered in 30K – if they are seen, they are likely to be quite different from what you’re used to.

I guess Forgeworld and Black Library (or at least Graham McNeil) are not talking :D

See Vengeful Spirit chapter 10

That's optimistic! We could forget Vengeful Spirit happened? Awesome!

About two thirds through and quite enjoying it. One of Graham McNeil's better books so far. Loving all the stuff on Molech but could live without the whole Knights Errant sub plot...finding these beginning to stretch credibility (assuming there is anything credible in W40k universe of course). They seem to be able to whizz around the galaxy at ease and know exactly where to go to find the people they want. Doesn't seem very 40k to me!
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:43 am


Return to Board index

Return to Black Library - Products and Events

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests