Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Xisor » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:43 pm

Fair enough on your account of the setup - I've never had (or known) that hereabouts. (I imagine, inferred from memory, there's perhaps some market for that in Australia & New Zealand too - down there books are mighty expensive anyway, with second-hand bookshops doing a roaring trade 'down under' that's simply absent in all but boutique areas of our bigger cities, to the best of my knowledge, here in Scotland).

An easy to find shop that'll readily recoup 20% of the book's value would be damn handy indeed. Maybe I'm an ignorant fool, there used to be an old booksellers in Stirling... I wonder if they're still there. Tomorrow: an investigative adventure!

Therion wrote:Aren't ebooks usually tied to user account?


Not to my knowledge. I can't say I've tried shoving things on to new people, but the individual bits I've DLd from Amazon & BL haven't had any noticeable DRM shenanigans interfering with my ability to access them. (And, as far as I'm aware, there'd be no way to tell or enforce in Black Library's case without massive hassle.)
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Rob P » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:59 pm

Buy an e-reader for a one off fee, then get every best seller for free from pirate sites for life?

[I am not actually advocating this, but it kills any argument as to the false economy of the e-reader]

Or on a more legal level, but still cheeky, buy from Amazon and get refund when you've read it.

Or on a legal, but not cheeky, level persuade 'mug' Kindle owners to lend you ebooks using the Kindle lending service.

[In America, but nowhere else at present, you can actually lend Kindle books from public libraries too]
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Athelassan » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:39 pm

Rob P wrote:Buy an e-reader for a one off fee, then get every best seller for free from pirate sites for life?

[I am not actually advocating this, but it kills any argument as to the false economy of the e-reader]

Well, sort of. I'm trying to look at it from the perspective of "how it should work" not "what it's possible to do with piracy" because if we're going down that route we could just start stealing books from actual shops as well.
[In America, but nowhere else at present, you can actually lend Kindle books from public libraries too]

That is a really good idea and more places should do that.

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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Vivia » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:58 pm

Rob P wrote:
[In America, but nowhere else at present, you can actually lend Kindle books from public libraries too]

Stockholm libraries have e-books for loan. Kindle isn't available in this country.

A photo from my local library and the download station ('ladda ner' means download):
Image
It's three years old. I haven't used it, they never have the books I want (but perhaps they have 'Kafka on the Beach', interesting), I always carry my USB stick I should use it. Considering how much Swedish e-books cost it isn't a bad idea to loan them.

Any idea on why books are so expensive in Australia and New Zealand? I can't imagine books even more expensive than in Scandinavia, a nightmare. :/
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Therion » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:34 pm

Athelassan wrote:
Rob P wrote:Buy an e-reader for a one off fee, then get every best seller for free from pirate sites for life?

[I am not actually advocating this, but it kills any argument as to the false economy of the e-reader]

Well, sort of. I'm trying to look at it from the perspective of "how it should work" not "what it's possible to do with piracy" because if we're going down that route we could just start stealing books from actual shops as well.

We couldn't, because stealing a book from a shop would do actual damage in form of the book not being in shop any more and the money paid by the store for the book being lost. Downloading a book for free from pirate site wouldn't do any damage unless one is actually one of these people who buy ebooks in which case there would be damage in form of lost sales.
Kinda like I used to be a big paper book buyer before a friendly librarian told me:
-Why buy books when you can read them for free?
And thus the amount of books that I'm reading has drastically increased and the amount of books that the authors are paid for by reading them has drastically decreased.
In 2012, I got about 120 library books. And libraries here don't pay any royalties to the publishers. And even in countries where they do it's some completely ridiculous sums like 6p that are nowhere near the price that publishers demand for just reading their books (e-book prices). I guess I could equally just start stealing books them from the bookstore as well because I got something for nothing *and* publishers have lost their sales.

Rob P wrote:Buy an e-reader for a one off fee, then get every best seller for free from pirate sites for life?

[I am not actually advocating this, but it kills any argument as to the false economy of the e-reader]

What's the point, though when you can go to a library and read any best seller for free on paper?
Also, the argument is about false economy of e-books as sold for current publisher prices, not on false economy of e-readers.

Xisor wrote:Not to my knowledge. I can't say I've tried shoving things on to new people, but the individual bits I've DLd from Amazon & BL haven't had any noticeable DRM shenanigans interfering with my ability to access them. (And, as far as I'm aware, there'd be no way to tell or enforce in Black Library's case without massive hassle.)

Don't they allow re-downloads of ebook files, though?
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Xisor » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:40 pm

Vivia wrote:Any idea on why books are so expensive in Australia and New Zealand? I can't imagine books even more expensive than in Scandinavia, a nightmare. :/


I remember vague, pub-based speculation whilst being there included thoughts along the lines: most bookshops just import, there isn't a big publishing industry in the antipodes, hence the expense. Whether that's true or not, I've no idea, but deep in cups it did sound reasonable!
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Athelassan » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:54 am

As Rob mentioned earlier, there's also probably an adjustment upwards to take account of the generally higher cost of living in the Antipodes.

Also, there can't be much demand for books in Australia. An Australian who knows how to read? Be serious.

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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Vivia » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:24 pm

Lol
Well yeah, it makes me think a little. Last time someone complained on SB they said a hardback cost around 24.95 AUD, at first I thought it was high, but then I noticed it was in AUD (around 170 sek), that's a perfectly reasonable priced HB here, and according to them it was totally outrageous, highest of thievery, etc. A textbook costs 300+ sek (the books for my baking class cost from 250-450 sek, not HB).
Different book cultures, I think.
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Major Rawne » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:23 pm

Yes i'm bringing this back up. And there's nothing anyone can do about it :P

Was having a wonderful little browse in Waterstones today and low and behold and nice shiny copy of Betrayer. And yes that is Priests of Mars in hardback creeping into the shot. And yes to see it all you need to open it in a new tab :D

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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Xisor » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:36 pm

Oh, Rawne. Rawne, Rawne, Rawne. *hug*

That's a photo of Angel Exterminatus. :lol: :roll: :P


Damnit, Bolthole cutting images! *shakes fist* Why can't I read instructions.

:oops: :cry:

Image
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Squiggle » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:47 pm

half price?! *runs*
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Major Rawne » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:30 pm

Squiggle wrote:half price?! *runs*

If only. It's on buy one get one half price.
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Xisor » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:10 pm

Originally asked by Frank O'Hanlon on Facebook
Same as with AE, really:

"Betrayer" not-enhanced-edition ebook isn't up on the site. The old TP's now available for proper order (and has been floating about in Waterstones all month) rather than pre-order.

Is this a change to the scheduling, a hiccup or a misunderstanding on my part?

Cheers,
Frank


Image


Black Library facebook page responded

Hi Frank, the standard eBook of 'Betrayer' will be on sale alongside the small paperback in six months. 'Angel Exterminatus' was put on sale earlier (alongside the Trade Paperback) but this is where the error lay. Rather than taking that one down again, we decided to leave it up as it would be unfair to have allowed some to buy it but not others. Going forward, the standard eBook will always be available alongside the 'Legacy edition' (small) paperback.


:|
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:21 pm

Wait what.... so the normal eBook is... delayed?? FFS.
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby sam vimes » Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:36 am

think I'll stick to dead tree versions
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Major Rawne » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:10 pm

shadowhawk2008 wrote:Wait what.... so the normal eBook is... delayed?? FFS.

I took to it to be that it isn't actually delayed, but rather that it is on schedule as planned. It was AE where the error lay in the it was released early, and BL just left it rather than trying to reverse it.
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Tim the Corsair » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:21 am

Athelassan wrote:As Rob mentioned earlier, there's also probably an adjustment upwards to take account of the generally higher cost of living in the Antipodes.

Also, there can't be much demand for books in Australia. An Australian who knows how to read? Be serious.

Ath


*middle-finger salute from a very literate Australian*

Bloody ignorant Poms :P
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:50 am

Major Rawne wrote:
shadowhawk2008 wrote:Wait what.... so the normal eBook is... delayed?? FFS.

I took to it to be that it isn't actually delayed, but rather that it is on schedule as planned. It was AE where the error lay in the it was released early, and BL just left it rather than trying to reverse it.


It's the same time of bad marketing that they did with the hardcovers, and continue to do so. To explain:

The HH hardcovers are marketed as being "early" releases by 3 months. That's fine. But what is the actual date for the books, that is, when do the trade paperbacks come out? They don't tell us. The release calendar is getting more and more outdated. We still don't know when Mark of Calth is officially coming out (feel free to correct me if wrong). The AE and Betrayer trade paperbacks weren't even announced on the calendar.

This is the kind of bad marketing that is leading to confusion in a lot of people. If the hardcovers are being released/marketed early, then we should know in advance what the actual release dates are.

Now, with this specific eBook mess. Again, it is bad marketing. They haven't made this news official, that is, they could very well have put this slight bit of information in the blogpost they did on the different formats last week, so that people are actually aware of it! When the Betrayer TPB is released, and people flock to the site to get the cheap eBook, they are not going to find it there. There won't be any explanation on the product page about it. More dissatisfaction, more grumbling, and I daresay, more anger.

The way that marketing/sales have been going around lately, in my particular case, they are making me less and less interested in their products. I was looking forward to getting the eBook for Betrayer, and now I have to wait for 6-7 months to get it. Fine by me. I'll just go read something else, put my money elsewhere, since they are not really encouraging me to spend it on their products.
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Xisor » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:50 am

I'd go a step further: they're pretty much actively (by 'bad business practice') encouraging me not to spend money on their biggest, well-liked-by-me series.

To say I've mixed feelings would be an understatement. I'd like them to learn their lesson, but similarly the only telling way for that to happen would be comparatively terrible sales overall. Similarly, it'd be kinda nice if SH & I were being 'excluded' for the Greater Good - e.g. we two or three dozen lose out but all other readers, writers, editors, market folk etc, if all of they live happily ever after. It'd just suck for us.

Humbug.
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Re: Horus Heresy Trade Paperback

Postby Athelassan » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:48 am

I don't want to be overly pessimistic, but I do feel like we've seen all this before, and these recent moves that look suspiciously suicidal represent BL moving in line with mainstream GW marketing policy. Alienating the customers? Check. Reducing communication with customers? Check. Garbled pre-release information? Check. Reduced quality of customer service and website interface? Check. Pushing ahead blindly without waiting to see what effect the moves are actually having? Double check. Ignoring any and all queries, concerns and protests from the customer base? Well, obviously.

The wisdom of the recent developments seems to vary from logically apparently sensible but commercially questionable to the outright barking mad. Given GW's history in such matters, I can't imagine that even catastrophic negative sales figures would affect their decision-making in any positive way, either. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

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